Eibmoz75

I wish I could agree it's the torque sensor however, the one I showed in the image/post above is a brand new one from Honda. The video I showed where you get -12v when turning left, and +12v when turning right shows the torque sensor is doing it's job.

I believe the other poster is correct in saying the rack is the next item to be replaced. The rack is receiving the voltages required to move the pinion left or right, but simply doesn't (stutters actually). So I am going to go the route of replacing the rack.

I know there isn't a ton of information on aftermarket racks..... but looking at Autozone, they claim to have a direct drop-in replacement with a 1 year warranty for 230$... including the torque sensor. Now I know what others might be thinking "why the f@#$ would you throw a third party remanufactured rack in the S...." and trust me I ain't totally sold on this idea, but that's why I'd like to see if anyone has input on this. https://www.autozone.com/suspension-...9_1334704_6207
They do core deposit/refund, and to me it looks like they're rebuilt s2k racks... Anyone got any advice or experience with these in the s2000?

Car Analogy

Opportunity is knocking, will you answer?

You're already so eps invested, one more little step, and you can turn this into a small business. Buy a used rack. Cheap, even if its damaged. Take it apart. Learn what wears. Find sources for the parts. Then buy a couple of used ap1 and ap2 racks, rebuild them, and start a rebuild service with core charge. We'd all prefer to spend more to have a rebuilt rack that had decent parts in it. The generic rebuild places are going to treat our racks the same way they do a 20 yo civic. They will use the cheapest parts that can be found. They won't care if it only last a few years. We will pay more for parts rebuilt with near oem grade stuff.

For CR, you'll probably not be able to do core swap, but people could send you their rack, and you could send it back rebuilt.

You can also learn to test and validate eps control unit. Maybe even learn to do component level repairs on them.

You can become what puddymod is to our diffs, or Billman is to tct. We need guys like you that can specialize in rebuilding these components as they age and wear.

Eibmoz75

Heck I wish! I do love working on this stuff... but unfortunately at the moment life is just too busy. It's been a huge endeavor to learn what has failed in my car, and I hope to pass this information on to everyone else since we need more detailed write-ups on what failures these cars can have.

You did get me thinking though... I dug up the old emails I had from Indianapolis Rack & Axle (https://inrackandaxle.com/) who I bought my rebuilt rack off of in 2016 and wrote them back, stating everything I have done and linking them to this thread. I asked them if they would be interested in taking my rack back to examine it for why the DTCs 5 and 33 appear "5: Open In The Motor Wire Harness, and 33: Motor Current Sensor" so maybe they can be the ones to determine the failure. It appears they are still in business from a Google search, but if I hear nothing... I may try and tear this rack apart myself without damaging it and discover what internally has failed... I think it might be corrosion, or even a weak internal ground/wiring connection since I did not mention in my post that I can force the rack to 'come online' by turning the wheel rapidly left-right while starting the car. When I do this, I have extremely notchy power steering for mere minutes (maybe I'll post a video of my process and what it does..) which indicates the rack gets power but only erratically provides power assist, before failing and the EPS light comes on which cuts all power from the EPS module to the rack.

However... I will keep this knowledge in my head, and maybe I can continue to offer others insight on the forums since I feel like i've seen a ton of the EPS issues with this system. Who knows... if I do tear apart the rack and can fix the issue, I wouldn't mind creating a detailed writeup w/ pictures identifying what I learn of the internals of the rack

I'll of course follow up once I hear back and have a plan for what I'll do.

_valtsu_

Don't know does this help, but I remembered Wheeler Dealers episode where S2000 had power steering issue.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7ppmoh
7:20 problem was described and 26:45 they took it a part. They eventually just bought used rack.

allansteele

sounds like you've been through it all on this. I'm just getting started trying to diagnosis my intermittent (mostly off) EPS problem. Every once in a while it'll come back on when i first start it and work like normal for about 5 minutes then it shuts off. So far all i've done is a alternator test and that seems to have enough power, do you have any ideas on the order to troubleshoot this problem?

thanks

randomwalk101

@Eibmoz75 have you resolved this issue? If it's a rack, there is a local guy here selling his rack with sensor attached (50K miles) for $99. Again, it's not mine..I just know he's selling it. He had EPS issues and thought it was the rack so he bought a another one to swap out his but it turned out to the the EPS computer. He left the unit he bought in the car and selling his original.

Benjamin Vasquez

hi, thank you for your information and your follow-up. maybe you could help me with my problem. i recently took out my s2000 after 6 months without driving, the steering was blocked.I had to turn the steering wheel from right to left several times so that it finally unlocked, it was as if stuck.I drove with 60km without worries, and suddenly seeing EPS lit and no more steering i've checked out, wiring, EPS box, fuses, i finally replaced the torque sensor with one i had in stock and the steering returned.unfortunately I did not take the measurements, and the steering wheel turns completely crazy, if I turn it a quarter of a turn it spins by itself ... unable to do DTC deletion, I have code 3-14-22-23-37 which is displayed. I really can't find the problem. I would like to try to recalibrate it but I cannot find a tutorial or the only one that I found does not work.do you have an idea? I specify it is a 6xxhp turbo My FCB BENJAMIN VASQUEZ from Belgium

Slowcrash_101

When you took it apart did that white/beige ring slide up and down smoothly? It is true the tq sensor is a potentiometer, but it is also a strain gauge. When you turn the wheel, the force at the wheel and the rack's resistance to motion(because tires and weight of the car on the ground) slides that beige plastic ring up and down the shaft. In other words if you spin the end shafts of the TQ sensor in opposite directions it compresses the spring, that motion is the signal sent to the sensor on the housing.

The TQ sensor is reactive, it kicks in assist after you turn the wheel. If that beige plastic ring doesn't move smoothly up and down, then it will cause jerky steering because the assist is reactive to the motion of the plastic ring. If the grease is all dried up and the plastic ring binds or skips through its range it will cause uneven assist. It's also why it happens more on cold days than hot, because cold dried up grease full of dirt is worse than hot dried up grease full of dirt. Less viscosity and less resistance to the spring/beige ring.

F1TwoThousand

Replace the torque sensor that's your issue

Eibmoz75

Sorry everyone for posting such a late response. I did solve the issue by replacing the rack with an eBay rack at around $400. Without disassembling my failed rack, I am reasonably certain (living in Florida here where its ALWAYS humid and rains more days than not...) that the issue was caused by corrosion in the motor assembly. I may take it apart and post pics if there's enough interest. Thanks for everyone's attention to this, I'll try and reply to everyone who's posts I missed.

ALSO!!! I discovered a MUCH easier way to get the torque sensor to slide into the rack. This MAY NOT be the correct way to do this, as I do not know the inner-working of the rack outside of pictures/videos of teardowns I've seen so *please*, if you know better please share if this is a good find, or why it would be advised against. After probably a dozen times removing these sensors I got fed up with having to push it super hard and hope it slid in. I did this on my currently functional rack and it made the sensor slide in with near-zero resistance, and I also have zero issues with steering after probably... 5k miles since I installed the rack. I'd imagine the inner-shaft is a hardened steel... so the weight of two beer bottles pushing a screwdriver on it I imagine is harmless. Just my $0.02.

The shaft inside the sensor housing can rotate. I used a thick screw driver on the teeth of the rack to *gently* apply pressure and rotate the shaft so the teeth were facing downwards, where they would then contact the teeth on the sensor which allowed it to slide in nicely. Here are pictures detailing before, and after rotating it gently with a screwdriver.



The two parallel red lines show where the shaft is inside the rack. The arrow in the middle is meant to show where the teeth on it are which are facing away from the camera. I think this is why everyone says "wiggle" the sensor and apply pressure, eventually it rotates the shaft to the correct position. By placing the tip of a screwdriver and applying a very small amount of force, it rotated the inner spine-shaft towards me, resulting in the picture below where you can clearly see teeth. The steel in the rack I assume is hardened.. so I believe the tiny amount of pressure from a screwdriver is negligible, but please don't take my word for this. It's just what I did and worked. I found I was able to do this while on my back under the car and the sensor slid in.







Hey man, thanks for posting that. The video was entertaining and if I remember correctly, this gave me better ideas for how the rack geometry works. I did eventually replace the rack, so thanks for the excellent suggestion.

Hmm, there can be a few things I would think for intermittent functionality like you describe. SOMETIMES when the issues occur after a reasonably consistent amount of time, it can be the EPS computer overheating (I don't know if they're prone to this.. but being an IT guy, electronics if they're starting to fail can overheat like this). The EPS computers are inter-changeable, so I would first test that. Look up "S2000 EPS computer location", in my 2002 AP1, it's between the battery and the fender. I have I think 3 of them if you want me to ship you mine for, idk, cheaper than whatever you find online and it's yours. The other thing I would check would be the harness connections if they're loose or shorted. Do you have a continuity tester? Does the issue happen if the car just sits 100% still after 5 minutes? The torque sensor can also be the cause of this, as Slowcrash posts below. There's a number of resources out there on *properly* regreasing it, but only your expertise when you have the sensor in-hand and are evaluating the feel/play of the beige ring will tell you if it's that. Heck, probably a good idea to pull that out anyways, find the proper method of cleaning (do NOT use WD40 or other solvent, use a dielectric/electronic parts cleaner to clean it) and essentially remove all dirt, then find out what the proper grease is to lube it up. I forgot these little details, so search and good luck! After you rule out the EPS, the torque sensor and still have issues (I think these fix a lot of problems outside the rack itself being bad), I would make sure your EPS harness connections are all solid. Hope you make some progress!

I sure did! Thanks a ton for that info, wish I had found it before I bought a $400 ebay rack. It was damn near brand new looking so I think I got lucky. From what I've read on our cars, it's usually the torque sensor, the rack or the EPS computer. At least, that seemed like 90% of everyone's resolutions.

Hmm, good job posting details on the variables you're working with. The steering wheel being 'locked' is interesting.. can you post more details on that, as well as what changed when you went from old torque sensor to the replacement (was it a new one? did you have "ghostly" power assist before AND after the torque sensor swap?). Your issue to me screams that the torque sensor has dirt, or the grease in it has dried up. When mine was spinning on it's own, I solved that issue by thoroughly disassembling the torque sensor, blasting air in it, then using an electronic parts cleaner spray, blasting more dirt out with that. I think when they turn on their own, the small beige ring could be stuck, indicating to the computer that the wheel is turning when it is not. All in all, and please anyone here with more experience chime in, but I believe all of your issues are isolated between the rack and the steering sensor. Also, unless you can remove those steering DTCs (this was my experience), you cannot calibrate via the paperclip method. You will have to find the major fault (I'd honestly guess the rack itself here) and remedy that before you can calibrate. I hope my info is accurate and helps you, it's been a while since I was elbow deep in this. Good luck!


Hey Slowcrash, I've seen your posts a lot, so thanks for replying. The torque sensor beige ring did indeed slide, it actually felt really consistent and to my ape brain I was like "yeah this is pretty clean and feels smooth, this can't be the problem". It only moves a few MM which surprised me, I expected more movement. Thanks for the tidbit of education on the TQ sensor, that makes good sense to me. For me being in FL, I will likely experience the drying out much less frequently than other S owners because... it's like always 80-90 degrees and super humid all the time here >.<

Haha I wish it was the issue!! Would've saved me the $400 I spent on a new one. It actually turned out to be the rack Live and learn! I just hope my expensive learning experiences at least help someone here save some cash.