Gas Cuts Out @ Max Gs
12-19-2003, 06:21 AM
#21
Okay...thought I'd post here with an update.
[I reserve the right to change my tune down the road
]
Fuel pump has been installed for 1 week now. Winter (aka rain, wet roads) have not allowed for too many "romps" for testing. However, I *HAVE* had a few chances to test the livin' heck outta this fuel pump now. Two scenarios come to mind (and that I've therefore tested to):
The straightline 80mph test I've done ~ 4 times now.
...no hesitation / cut out.
The U-turns test I've done ~ 10 times in a row now....no hesitation / cut out.
[Hate to jinx myself here...
...] Looks like the replacement of my fuel pump has, indeed, corrected this particular S2000's hesitation issue. Feels good and strong 
.
- Dave
[I reserve the right to change my tune down the road
]Fuel pump has been installed for 1 week now. Winter (aka rain, wet roads) have not allowed for too many "romps" for testing. However, I *HAVE* had a few chances to test the livin' heck outta this fuel pump now. Two scenarios come to mind (and that I've therefore tested to):
- Straightline @ 80mph in 6th, drop to 4th & run up to [near] redline on 5th and 6th at full throttle, and
- U-turns in 1st at near-full-throttle-to-full-throttle (near-full throt during turn; once on a straight line full throt.).
The straightline 80mph test I've done ~ 4 times now.
...no hesitation / cut out.The U-turns test I've done ~ 10 times in a row now.
...no hesitation / cut out.[Hate to jinx myself here...
...] Looks like the replacement of my fuel pump has, indeed, corrected this particular S2000's hesitation issue. Feels good and strong .- Dave
12-22-2003, 07:22 AM
#22
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I took the service mng for a beat-down run with an elaborate Computer system hooked up to my car. As I expected the system didn't pick up shiat, they even sent the info to Honda and they have pretty much indicated to me that the car can't be fixed. It is still in the shop and I have a feeling that I will have to sue to get my lemon law rights, I'm picking up the car today I will record the entire conversation with the service manager. He will be on tape telling me that the car can't be fixed I will also have him on tape confirming how dangerous the car is. Replacement; Lotus Elise.
12-22-2003, 07:36 AM
#23
For what its worth...I seriously believe that any recording (to be admissible in court) would require either 1) a court-ordered/approved wire tap, or 2) the recordee's permission.
Best of luck. Also, keep in mind that your local Honda service center ain't the only Honda shop in town (more than likely). Take car around to others if you don't like the one shop's diagnosis.
BTW, The Bruised Banana has been hooked up to that marvelous diagnostic jimmy as well. It has its good and bad points. Couldn't localize the problem...but it definitely reported back that there *were* incongruities in system functions. So we opted to play a "replace one at a time" game for the solution to present itself. Looks like, for my experience, the Fuel Pump did the trick.
Also, I can report further that I ran the livin' heck outta The Bruised Banana this past Saturday for a nice backroads romp. No hiccups whatsoever.
- Dave
Best of luck. Also, keep in mind that your local Honda service center ain't the only Honda shop in town (more than likely). Take car around to others if you don't like the one shop's diagnosis.
BTW, The Bruised Banana has been hooked up to that marvelous diagnostic jimmy as well. It has its good and bad points. Couldn't localize the problem...but it definitely reported back that there *were* incongruities in system functions. So we opted to play a "replace one at a time" game for the solution to present itself. Looks like, for my experience, the Fuel Pump did the trick.
Also, I can report further that I ran the livin' heck outta The Bruised Banana this past Saturday for a nice backroads romp. No hiccups whatsoever.
- Dave
12-27-2003, 11:35 PM
#28
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Hey, S2000,
I don't know much about your fuel tank architecture, but I know a couple of other things. The MAP sensor is a standard item. You can swap out a GM sensor with a vacuum hose to a convenient manifold port, solder up a few wires and your ECU won't know the difference. I.e., it's nothing special.
Also, a MAP sensor doesn't care if you're going straight, right or left, or if you're in 1st or 5th gear. The only thing that seems to bother them is impacts from, say, vibration. After all they have a physical diaphram that is trying to convert it's internal "position" into a resistance value for the ECU. The diaphram has mass so vibration effects it.
I've also fried a high pressure pump or two. They DO NO LIKE being run dry AT ALL. If you've had the opportunity to run one dry, say if you were autocrossing and going for max performance by only "installing" a few gallons of gas (less weight), you may have started the wear out process. Once begun, it can only get worse and become more and more prone to pressure drop.
The stock system runs at about 46 psi at 100KPa (wide open throttle) and my guess is a new pump probably puts out significantly over that, probably close to 60 psi (just a guess though). So it can "wear out" to 46 psi before it shows in your daily driving. Let's say it's morn out to 47 psi, you won't even notice. Until you get a tiny slosh. Then it could easily cavitate, drop to 25 psi and take a few seconds to recover to 47 psi, whereas a stong new pump would come back before it's 60 psi dropped all the way to even 46 psi.
Again just some thoughts.
All the best with your "struggle"
Jim
I don't know much about your fuel tank architecture, but I know a couple of other things. The MAP sensor is a standard item. You can swap out a GM sensor with a vacuum hose to a convenient manifold port, solder up a few wires and your ECU won't know the difference. I.e., it's nothing special.
Also, a MAP sensor doesn't care if you're going straight, right or left, or if you're in 1st or 5th gear. The only thing that seems to bother them is impacts from, say, vibration. After all they have a physical diaphram that is trying to convert it's internal "position" into a resistance value for the ECU. The diaphram has mass so vibration effects it.
I've also fried a high pressure pump or two. They DO NO LIKE being run dry AT ALL. If you've had the opportunity to run one dry, say if you were autocrossing and going for max performance by only "installing" a few gallons of gas (less weight), you may have started the wear out process. Once begun, it can only get worse and become more and more prone to pressure drop.
The stock system runs at about 46 psi at 100KPa (wide open throttle) and my guess is a new pump probably puts out significantly over that, probably close to 60 psi (just a guess though). So it can "wear out" to 46 psi before it shows in your daily driving. Let's say it's morn out to 47 psi, you won't even notice. Until you get a tiny slosh. Then it could easily cavitate, drop to 25 psi and take a few seconds to recover to 47 psi, whereas a stong new pump would come back before it's 60 psi dropped all the way to even 46 psi.
Again just some thoughts.
All the best with your "struggle"
Jim
12-28-2003, 02:34 AM
#29
Thanks for the info Jim . Highly valuable knowledge to many on this site . I've never *deliberately* driven my tank dry...but I've probably made it a more-than-necessary-habit on occasion due to sheer laziness 
. I'll think better of it in the future and will consider your wise words every time I see my fuel gauge get unnecessarily low.
Thanks again!
- Dave
. Highly valuable knowledge to many on this site . I've never *deliberately* driven my tank dry...but I've probably made it a more-than-necessary-habit on occasion due to sheer laziness . I'll think better of it in the future and will consider your wise words every time I see my fuel gauge get unnecessarily low.Thanks again!
- Dave
12-28-2003, 02:46 PM
#30
Standard service limits for fuel pressure are 47-54 psi. I doubt that the fuel trim would hit the limits giving a CEL if unless you were below the min though. Might be worth checking - though the service manual way of checking is to use a Honda adaptor to replace the fuel rail damper, then attach a gauge to that. I had low fuel pressure problems (changing the filter fixed it.... which was odd in itself), so ended up replacing the regulator with an aftermarket one - that also has built in gauge. So I can check the pressure just by clamping the vacuum line. I didn't have starvation problems though, even when running to around 1/3 on track.
-Brian.
-Brian.