Modifications needed to support forced induction....
please, before you tell me to SEARCH (and i know how it feels. i have been a member of the RX-7 Forum since it was launched, and i hated newbies that didnt search), i did. mostly all of the threads pertaining to this subject all have 2 or 3 replies, mainly saying: SEARCH! and there was not a lot of info on the questions i am about to ask, so please bear with me.
that said...what modifications are needed (or highly, highly recommended) when going the forced induction route?? there has not been much discussion on fuel injector size, type of clutch, driveline mods (driveshaft, dif, axles), ignition, and ECUs and other electronics.
i see among the common FI kits, such as the Comptech SC and Speed Craft turbo, is that they include a fuel pump, but nothing else regarding the fuel system. what is the hp limit on the flow of the stock injector? are upgraded ones needed for 320+ RWHP??
i have noticed that there are not many clutches for sale for the S2000. how much horsepower/torque can the stock unit hold?? how much hp/tq can the Spoon, or any other aftermarket clutch unit hold?
i have also noticed that high hp (relatively) S2000 go through diffs and axles as Michael Jackson gets nose-jobs. what are some good alternatives to stock pieces?? what kind of driveshaft and LSD is recommended?? what about axles (although there are non in the aftermarket yet)??
what about electronics?? can the stock S2000 (or at lease upgraded plugs/wires) give enough spark for FI?? how many have installed ignition amps such as the HKS Twin Power or MSD units, etc??
to my knowledge, the Mugen and Spoon ECU upgrades are not recommended for forced induction. what would be a good upgrade to let the ECU know that you have increased flow drastically?? or would a piggy back fuel controller and tuning of the fuel curves suffice??
sorry for all the questions, and please....don't bombard me with the S word.
that said...what modifications are needed (or highly, highly recommended) when going the forced induction route?? there has not been much discussion on fuel injector size, type of clutch, driveline mods (driveshaft, dif, axles), ignition, and ECUs and other electronics.
i see among the common FI kits, such as the Comptech SC and Speed Craft turbo, is that they include a fuel pump, but nothing else regarding the fuel system. what is the hp limit on the flow of the stock injector? are upgraded ones needed for 320+ RWHP??
i have noticed that there are not many clutches for sale for the S2000. how much horsepower/torque can the stock unit hold?? how much hp/tq can the Spoon, or any other aftermarket clutch unit hold?
i have also noticed that high hp (relatively) S2000 go through diffs and axles as Michael Jackson gets nose-jobs. what are some good alternatives to stock pieces?? what kind of driveshaft and LSD is recommended?? what about axles (although there are non in the aftermarket yet)??
what about electronics?? can the stock S2000 (or at lease upgraded plugs/wires) give enough spark for FI?? how many have installed ignition amps such as the HKS Twin Power or MSD units, etc??
to my knowledge, the Mugen and Spoon ECU upgrades are not recommended for forced induction. what would be a good upgrade to let the ECU know that you have increased flow drastically?? or would a piggy back fuel controller and tuning of the fuel curves suffice??
sorry for all the questions, and please....don't bombard me with the S word.
grrr...forgot one thing: lowered compression.
how many have dropped the compression via aftermarket pistons to run more/safer boost? do any companies make internals yet for the F20C?? also, it is recommended to run cams to make even more power?? i have heard that cams are not necessary for forced induction, because of issues dealing with overlap.
Thanks in advanced...
how many have dropped the compression via aftermarket pistons to run more/safer boost? do any companies make internals yet for the F20C?? also, it is recommended to run cams to make even more power?? i have heard that cams are not necessary for forced induction, because of issues dealing with overlap.
Thanks in advanced...
Nobody really knows for sure how much the stock clutch will hold, but it's in the general area of 330 hp... Nobody has numbers on the Spoon or Mugen clutches but they are used on N/A race cars so I imagine they don't hold much more.
I havent heard of any axles snapping except for Wes.
The stock differential seems to hold up fine if you don't drop it. I am installing a Kaaz unit.
Spoon/Mugen computers are no good, they are made for N/A which is a different ball game than FI. A piggyback and tuning will suffice, but a standalone is the ultimate solution.
A heavy duty fuel pump will allow the stock injectors to flow really well. But this has to be paired with a fuel pressure regulator to boost fuel pressure.
Stock spark plugs seem to work fine, however I am upgrading to Denso Iridiums, which apparently are supposed to be much better.
All of the internals for the F20C have to be custom made. Cams, and lowered compression are logical steps for a built motor, nothing is different with the F20C.
Overlap cannot be tuned out currently as there are no adjustable cam hears for the F20C.
Chris
I havent heard of any axles snapping except for Wes.
The stock differential seems to hold up fine if you don't drop it. I am installing a Kaaz unit.Spoon/Mugen computers are no good, they are made for N/A which is a different ball game than FI. A piggyback and tuning will suffice, but a standalone is the ultimate solution.
A heavy duty fuel pump will allow the stock injectors to flow really well. But this has to be paired with a fuel pressure regulator to boost fuel pressure.
Stock spark plugs seem to work fine, however I am upgrading to Denso Iridiums, which apparently are supposed to be much better.
All of the internals for the F20C have to be custom made. Cams, and lowered compression are logical steps for a built motor, nothing is different with the F20C.
Overlap cannot be tuned out currently as there are no adjustable cam hears for the F20C.
Chris
It also depends on what you want to do. The comptech kit (and I would assume the vortech kit) include everything you need. I don't know if comptech now includes the electronic signal management (ESM) unit in it's kit or not. Older kits used a check vavle to prevent the ECU from seeing boost; the ESM is an electronic "check valve" which prevents the ECU from seeing boost. The ESM is a much better solution than the check valve.
If you keep the SC "stock", you don't need to do anything else. If you want to increase boost or if you plan on dropping the clutch a lot, you need to start looking at a different clutch, an intercooler.....depends on how far you want to go and how much power you want to make.
I have 16Kmiles on my SC and haven't done anything except the ESM and colder spark plugs (denso iridium ik24 or 22, whichever is the colder one).
If you keep the SC "stock", you don't need to do anything else. If you want to increase boost or if you plan on dropping the clutch a lot, you need to start looking at a different clutch, an intercooler.....depends on how far you want to go and how much power you want to make.
I have 16Kmiles on my SC and haven't done anything except the ESM and colder spark plugs (denso iridium ik24 or 22, whichever is the colder one).
Welcome,
If you are going with supercharger Comptech especially here is some input addition to what rocketman said.
If you are intending to use Comptech kit as is then, you shouldn't really worry about things other than maybe stronger clutch. If you are intending to go higher boost like I have, then you need to worry about upgrading other components.
When my car was dynoed at 341hp, stock injectors couldn't flow more fuel after 6K(VTEC) no matter with jacked up fuel pressure.
If you are going with bigger injector, as you would know tuning would be must with piggy back device like VAFC otherwise you will run into drivability prolem like I have expressed on another thread. Comptech kit as well as other kit offers upgraded fuel pump so you don't have to worry about that.
I have been using Mugen Clutch cover with stock disc without any problem for 40,000 miles, but I don't abuse my car and run my car aggressive like I have before the supercharger.
However you may want to look into more beefier clutch than Mugen like Star or Act...etc
My internal is basically stock and I don't have any problem yet.
I tend to drive much less aggressive now then before even with significant power available that is probably I don't have any problems yet.
If you are not going to drive like you stole it, I don't see any forseeable problem even leaving internals and drivetrain unchanged.
By the way I have excess of 70000 miles in my car.
If you are going with supercharger Comptech especially here is some input addition to what rocketman said.
If you are intending to use Comptech kit as is then, you shouldn't really worry about things other than maybe stronger clutch. If you are intending to go higher boost like I have, then you need to worry about upgrading other components.
When my car was dynoed at 341hp, stock injectors couldn't flow more fuel after 6K(VTEC) no matter with jacked up fuel pressure.
If you are going with bigger injector, as you would know tuning would be must with piggy back device like VAFC otherwise you will run into drivability prolem like I have expressed on another thread. Comptech kit as well as other kit offers upgraded fuel pump so you don't have to worry about that.
I have been using Mugen Clutch cover with stock disc without any problem for 40,000 miles, but I don't abuse my car and run my car aggressive like I have before the supercharger.
However you may want to look into more beefier clutch than Mugen like Star or Act...etc
My internal is basically stock and I don't have any problem yet.
I tend to drive much less aggressive now then before even with significant power available that is probably I don't have any problems yet.
If you are not going to drive like you stole it, I don't see any forseeable problem even leaving internals and drivetrain unchanged.By the way I have excess of 70000 miles in my car.
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yellowknockers
S2000 Forced Induction
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Feb 9, 2005 07:21 AM




