[QUOTE]Originally posted by Elistan
[B]

How would it do this?

 

In my pathfinder I ran a *thorough* mileage test before installing the widget (ie. tracked gasoline consumption / mileage) for at least 600 km. After installing the widget I tracked mileage again, and found a clear 10% improvement (which in a gas guzzler like a 91 pathfinder pays for the widget and then some...)

But then again, the pathfinder's engine is setup for high torque at low revs and is far from efficient. I'd guess this system is most suited to older gas-guzzlers; which is why I have doubts it would do much for an S2000. But hey, even a few % increase in combustion efficiency should show up as an improvement in HP, even if only a few %.

I guess I'll just have to try the thing in my S2000 and see...too bad I don't have access to a dyno...

I note on their website the performance figures and tech specs are "under revision"; my guess is that they are qualifying their claims so as not to get sued.

JC

 

I'm not saying it doesn't work (though I'm sceptical), but 10% improvement in mileage is easily attainable by differences in driver technique. Also, it may be due to differences in seasons - e.g. less A/C use or different gasoline formulations. There are a lot of variables that determine mileage, and until a complete double-blind test is done, I'll remain sceptical.

 

600 km is not what I would call a thorough mileage check. Is that like 1 or 2 fillups? My mileage fluctuates up and down 20% based on my mood.

 

From http://www.purchon.com/chemistry/catalyst.htm

So which method are we talking about here? I assume the first, since I've never heard an an intermediary compound involving plantinum and hydrocarbons. (Hence my first question.) So does anybody have any details on exactly what plantinum would be doing to which specific molecules in an engine's combustion chamber?

 

" 600 km is not what I would call a thorough mileage check. Is that like 1 or 2 fillups? My mileage fluctuates up and down 20% based on my mood."

actually checking my records (its 2 years now since i put da thing in) it was more like 4 fillups, so it must have been around 1400 km.

however the 10% was very consistent across each fillup.

 

If its a scam its a strange one. The instructions that come with the widget tell you to do a mileage check before installing, again after, and call their tech support if you do not get at least a 10% fuel saving, so they can make sure you installed it correctly. Why would they do that if it was a scam?

JC

 

It may not be a scam in the traditional sense of the "scams". I think the vendors for this product might actually believe they have a genuine product. The problem is that it's effectiveness is not consistent nor is it across the board. It may have worked for you but it doesn't in significant numbers of customer's vehicles. This is why they are being investigated. Every product will have a small percentage of cases where it doesn't do what it is advertised to do. In this situation, it's the other way around. Only a small percentage of cases has been reported to actually work.
When a consumer magazine took this product to a research lab, it was shown that the method that was used to introduce the platinum into the engine "could" not really work. The whole chemistry of the system did not comply with known science.

 

Have you seen the steak knife sets they sell on TV that guarantee a sharp edge for life, even after cutting through tin cans and the head of a hammer? Well, they don't actually stay sharp for life, and IIIII guarantee if you cut several hammer heads you won't be slicing a tomatoe so thin "you can read through it".

But it's "guaranteed", isn't it? So what have I got to lose? It's because of this momentary lack of common sense that people buy these things in the first place....since this is such a technical item that most of us average people can't comprehend the TRUE workings of, we assume "It must work, else they wouldn't sell it!"

Actually, we could do one set of calculations which would tell us if there is even a REMOTE possibility of it being useful (but it won't tell us if it actually works, just if it's possible). We just need someone to plug in a few numbers which I'm too lazy to search for. They say each bottle lasts approximately 60,000 miles, so we need to figure out if that bottle of "stuff" would actually last that long.

60,000 miles means a certain number of tire rotations. We know the gear ratios, but lets make it simple on ourselves and assume 6th gear all of the time. Using that, we can determine how many times the engine's crank will turn (speed doesn't matter here, it's only number of turns we're interested in). This gives us enough info to determine the number of times each cylinder will fire. With each firing, we should have at least 1 molecule of "stuff vapor" in the cylinder. If we assume the "stuff" is no other substance than platinum, we can calculate how much space that many molecules of platinum would take up (my bet is the number is significant). Now, looking at that huge number, do we think:

1) Will that many molecules fit into solution into such a tiny bottle?
2) Am I SAFELY assuming that only 1 molecule is used per cylinder firing, and if so, is that enough to be useful? If not, but 1 per cylinder IS useful, what effect does the uneven combustion have on my engine since some cylinders may have it and some may not from each firing to each firing?
3) Can I SAFELY assume that the bubbling process is actually putting enough of this stuff into vapor form?
4) Does anyone think I need to get a job for spending so much time coming up with this?

 

well, platinum costs about $60/gram. lets say they put a 1/2 gram in each bottle, which would cost $30, leaving the rest for profit.

now, 1 mole of platinum weighs about 140 g, so we have .5/140 = 1/280 moles of platinum in there.

so the number of atoms of platinum in each bottle is avogadro's number 6.022 * 10^23 /280

= aprox 2 *10 21 atoms.


approximating here, assume we are driving at 4000 rpm in 6 gear doing 100 mph 60,000 miles will take 600 hours = 2.16 * 10^6 minutes = 8 *10 ^ 9 revolutions. with 4 cylinders, that makes 3.2 * 10 ^10 cylinder revolutions in 60,000 miles.

now, dividing the number of molecules by the number of cylinder revs, we get 6*10^23 / 3*10 ^10 atoms / ignition event.

soo every time the cylinder fires, there are 2 * 10 ^13 atoms of platinum in there ....20,000,000,000,000 or 20 thousand trillion.

yes dude, there are lots of atoms in each cylinder

JC