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Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,959
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From: Bedford
I can't believe that Honda would do anything to allienate all of the many prospective Odyssey owners that the demographically young S2000 owners on this board represent.
It took Audi many years to overcome the bad publicity caused by the 5000S' "sudden accceleration" debacle; I don't think Honda, a great company, wishes to suffer a similar fate. I believe the company will ultimately support its flagship model through these early development problems.
I think it would be a mistake to start out being antagonistic about a problem Honda will have to eventually address. But, then it's easy to be cool, calm and collected about something I've been fortunate not to have experienced (as of yet).
It took Audi many years to overcome the bad publicity caused by the 5000S' "sudden accceleration" debacle; I don't think Honda, a great company, wishes to suffer a similar fate. I believe the company will ultimately support its flagship model through these early development problems.
I think it would be a mistake to start out being antagonistic about a problem Honda will have to eventually address. But, then it's easy to be cool, calm and collected about something I've been fortunate not to have experienced (as of yet).
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 609
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From: Rockville
There is an issue here about whether one says "Honda" or "AHM". To me, saying "Honda" means Honda, Japan; AHM, of course, is American Honda Motors.
My overwhelming impression is that Honda, Japan is proactive, cares greatly about their customers and is dedicated to doing the right thing.
Unfortunately, my overwhelming impression of AHM is that they want to do the least amount they can get away with, deny the existence of problems when there clearly are problems, use flimsy excuses to deny warranty service ("that aftermarket exhaust has made your clutch bad, so we can't cover that"), have little or no clue that they may be alienating future purchasers and seem to only react (and even then you have to poke them in the eye).
It would come as no surprise whatsoever to me if AHM sat on this issue as long as possible (gets more cars out of the warranty period). I for one would be willing to join a letter writing campaign after they are given a suitable amount of time to respond on their own.
Something to think about, though:
If the U.S. market has over 50% of all S2000's sold, wouldn't you have thought maybe the TSB would appear here first or at least at the same time as it appeared in Europe?
Sorry for the cynicism, just my $0.02
My overwhelming impression is that Honda, Japan is proactive, cares greatly about their customers and is dedicated to doing the right thing.
Unfortunately, my overwhelming impression of AHM is that they want to do the least amount they can get away with, deny the existence of problems when there clearly are problems, use flimsy excuses to deny warranty service ("that aftermarket exhaust has made your clutch bad, so we can't cover that"), have little or no clue that they may be alienating future purchasers and seem to only react (and even then you have to poke them in the eye).
It would come as no surprise whatsoever to me if AHM sat on this issue as long as possible (gets more cars out of the warranty period). I for one would be willing to join a letter writing campaign after they are given a suitable amount of time to respond on their own.
Something to think about, though:
If the U.S. market has over 50% of all S2000's sold, wouldn't you have thought maybe the TSB would appear here first or at least at the same time as it appeared in Europe?
Sorry for the cynicism, just my $0.02
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
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Hi, I am new to the list. I have had a red s2000 since Oct 1999. It is a great car, I've owned hondas for 20yrs.
Yesterday the engine light started blinking and got a bad noise and luckily I was within 3 minutes of a dealer and took it there. They said my sparkplug had backed out and that the coil was burned out and some of it had dropped into the cylinder. They also said that at least one other sparkplug was loose. The car is just out of warrenty. Their initial estimate is $4500 and they say it could be $8000.
I am trying to figure out what to do, this seems like a problem that has occured to others, advice would be appreciated.
Mark
Yesterday the engine light started blinking and got a bad noise and luckily I was within 3 minutes of a dealer and took it there. They said my sparkplug had backed out and that the coil was burned out and some of it had dropped into the cylinder. They also said that at least one other sparkplug was loose. The car is just out of warrenty. Their initial estimate is $4500 and they say it could be $8000.
I am trying to figure out what to do, this seems like a problem that has occured to others, advice would be appreciated.
Mark
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,063
Likes: 365
From: Redondo Beach
Originally posted by MarkS2K
I thought the #4 cylinder failure only affected a certain batch of cars.
I thought the #4 cylinder failure only affected a certain batch of cars.
John
P.S. There's no indication that the '02 engines have been fixed.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 418
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From: Los Angeles
I agree w/ nhobbes that a friendly sort of note letting AHM know that we all know is a good idea. I don't think anyone is talking about a class action lawsuit yet! We just want to be taken care of, as they are in Europe. The problem with not letting them know that 25,000 S2000 owners know about the problem is that they may delay or never do anything.
The other problem is that every day someone is getting screwed by this, in fact many have been already. Here are paraphrased responses from Miller Honda in Van Nuys, CA when I brought them my car with the tap tap tap and six pages of documentation from s2ki about all the #4 failures and work that had/hadn't been done for owners in the U.S.:
1. "We noticed your oil looks pretty clean, did you change it after you noticed the problem?"
2. "We don't pay any attention to stuff like this [the six pages of documenation], we have to have something from Honda to acknowlege or diagnose anything and there's nothing from Honda about this problem."
3. "We have encountered this problem in a number of S2000's but they all occured because people didn't check their oil, it was the customer's fault."
4. "Have you been running Nitrous in your car?"
Those ridiculous questions and comments sort of say it all. Not to mention there are discussions of this problem on the private AHM dealer board.
Regarding comments above about tracking the car, I think it should be noted that tracking the car does not cause the problem; RPM changes and running the car up to the redline, etc. doesn't do it. Honda has stated that it is extended periods of high speed cruising that causes the problem such as those encountered on the autobahn and European freeways where the cops don't enforce speeding until it gets into the hundreds.
Mine occurred after a 2 hour session of high speed highway cruising on deserted desert highways. Let's not confuse the issue with unrelated applications for the car. Either way, if the car can't handle high speed driving, on or off the track, it isn't the car for me.
dt
The other problem is that every day someone is getting screwed by this, in fact many have been already. Here are paraphrased responses from Miller Honda in Van Nuys, CA when I brought them my car with the tap tap tap and six pages of documentation from s2ki about all the #4 failures and work that had/hadn't been done for owners in the U.S.:
1. "We noticed your oil looks pretty clean, did you change it after you noticed the problem?"
2. "We don't pay any attention to stuff like this [the six pages of documenation], we have to have something from Honda to acknowlege or diagnose anything and there's nothing from Honda about this problem."
3. "We have encountered this problem in a number of S2000's but they all occured because people didn't check their oil, it was the customer's fault."
4. "Have you been running Nitrous in your car?"
Those ridiculous questions and comments sort of say it all. Not to mention there are discussions of this problem on the private AHM dealer board.
Regarding comments above about tracking the car, I think it should be noted that tracking the car does not cause the problem; RPM changes and running the car up to the redline, etc. doesn't do it. Honda has stated that it is extended periods of high speed cruising that causes the problem such as those encountered on the autobahn and European freeways where the cops don't enforce speeding until it gets into the hundreds.
Mine occurred after a 2 hour session of high speed highway cruising on deserted desert highways. Let's not confuse the issue with unrelated applications for the car. Either way, if the car can't handle high speed driving, on or off the track, it isn't the car for me.
dt
Registered User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,506
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From: Laguna
wow, this is sounding like a ticking time bomb within the engine. What are the symptoms of the "tap tap tap"? is it like valve taps or something different? I get some tapping noise from a cold start until the engine warms up and the noise is gone.
-ardy
-ardy
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,063
Likes: 365
From: Redondo Beach
Originally posted by vapors2k
wow, this is sounding like a ticking time bomb within the engine. What are the symptoms of the "tap tap tap"? is it like valve taps or something different? I get some tapping noise from a cold start until the engine warms up and the noise is gone.
wow, this is sounding like a ticking time bomb within the engine. What are the symptoms of the "tap tap tap"? is it like valve taps or something different? I get some tapping noise from a cold start until the engine warms up and the noise is gone.