Unsung_boss

so i do a lot of my own work on my car and am considered quite mechanically competent and have done the usual checks

Going up a hill in 4th gear at 1500 - 2000 rpm and putting foot flat.
handbrake up in second, and riding the clutch to check if it stalls when hot etc.

Clutch fluid is still pretty decent and at a decent level
master cylinder was replaced in the last 50 000 miles but no leaks are visible and pedal still feels the same.

My car is a 2000 ap1 with close on 140 000 miles on it. performs beautifully for it's age and condition as have my other Hondas I've owned.

Here's the issue,
if I drive for around 20 - 30 Miles in rather spirited fashion usually around 5th or 6th gear occasionally dropping down to 4th to gain pace after slowing down for a truck etc... I notice that my Third gear is still holding. I'm not a fan of yanking on any gear levers ever so i normally just accelerate slightly and gently pull it out of gear whilst coming off the throttle OR just adding a bit of pressure on the lever until it releases.

I do already suspect 3rd / 4th Synchro sleeve / Collar is on it's way out ... but this doesn't happen until the box is quite hot.

Tempted to just replace Tranny fluid but a very reputable Honda specialized mechanic reckons it's my clutch on it's way out that that fluid change won't do anything..

Any suggestions?

Reckon

With that many miles on it, its possible the clutch is going. Do the slipping clutch test to see. Changing the fluid doesn't hurt anything and will not be affected if you have to replace the clutch.

iDomN8U

Sounds like he did a 4th gear check to see if it's slipping. Those symptoms do not have any impact on going to gear and it's binding like I understand the OP's issue.

I would change the tranny fluid out with something that's slightly thicker. Perhaps when it's hot the tranny fluid is too thin causing the syncro to bind.

What are you using now?

Options:
Redline MTF
Honda MTF
Amsoil MTF
AC Delco/GM syncromesh MTF

I would do some research to see if you can find viscosity ratings on these and pick the thicker of the bunch. Or just go through the list and see which one helps the most.

Unsung_boss

meant to add clutch details and current life but forgot..

yeah look the Clutch disc on the car is an OE Honda Disc with now 45 000+- miles on it and it's mated with an ACT High pressure plate & ACT Ultralight Flywheel . it's the 2nd clutch on the pressure plate as the HD6 Puck clutch it had on when I bought it shredded to pieces for no apparent reason (Hated driving with it too ... didn't handle heat from even reversing up a driveway .. )

ANYWHOO .....

@Reckon .. Shot ... yeah slipping clutch test is fine.. and the odd mild launch/ clutch ride to get the tail out on a slippery surface, it seems to still be biting just fine.. which is why I was worried about the tranny / Fluid ...

@iDomN8U - Thanks as well man .
Currently I've got Honda MTF with 54000 miles on. Another reason I thought the S2k syncros might be binding a bit under heat when dirty .. and hot and and and ..

Options:
Redline MTL50224 is a 75w80
Honda MTF - Also a GL-4 75w80
Amsoil MTF seems to be a 5w30 which in essence is the same as your Honda MTF gl-4 75w80
AC Delco/GM syncromesh MTF No Idea
I would do some research to see if you can find viscosity ratings on these and pick the thicker of the bunch. Or just go through the list and see which one helps the most.

I have two quarts of a "FUCHS Titan semi-syn 75W90 which was recommended to me. but haven't cracked the seals yet as I'd like to get a little more detail (I see the other vriants are Full synth hence curious as to whether I should get a full synth replacement (Honda MTF isn't even available for straight purchase in South Africa) we have to take an empty container to the nearest Honda dealer (3 in a 10 mile radius) and get it pumped out by the litre ... (Sounds like I live in the bush )

That said, Girlfriends dad is a Castrol importer / supplier so might ask him about the rumoured Castrol SMX-S unicorn fart oil everyone mentioned way back when .

iDomN8U

54,000 miles on the tranny fluid?!?!? yeah change that out first with Honda MTF (I think it's a 10w30) and go from there. I hope 54,000 miles is a typo and you meant 5400 miles (even then I would start to change it)

Motul might also have a MTF in the 10w40 range that will help with heat.

I wouldn't go with a 75w90 oil just yet. Better to go with a W30 or W40 weight and change it more frequently. If you still have an issue you might be able to blend to see if that helps, then maybe move over to a 75w90 weight as a last resort.

I would just have 2 quarts shipped to S.A, it shouldn't cost much and it's a good place to start (who knows what the F*@K they are pumping out of a barrel, unless you can see the label).

If you're in a major bind, you can use a full synt 10w30 oil as well, Don't quote me on this, as I have never read up on this BUT I don't see why not. The MTF have a additives package for extra protection.

So you know where talking on the same grade oil:


So a gear oil 75w90 would be in the engine oil W40-w50 range.

On second thought: Crack the Fuchs and see what it does. semi vs full just means the full has a little bit more longer life perhaps a fraction better anti-wear properties (it's very difficult to say without proper specs on both oils and oil analysis)

starchland

so your saying its not letting you out of 3rd gear? What I would first do is see if it will let you out of 3rd gear w/o using the clutch, aka try shifting without the clutch by matching the revs perfectly. Should help pinpoint if its the syncro/hydraulic system that is the cause. Chances are its the syncro if it only does it in 3rd gear. bleed your clutch fluid, and make sure your clutch is adjusted properly with enough freeplay (important)

Unsung_boss

I'm confused... 5400 miles would mean changing your tranny fluid at every service interval ??
my tranny fluid is around 100 000km old.. some dealerships only change it out every 90000 km .. Either way I think i replacement might be due.

Shot for the Visc picture.. was looking for something like that for a while. (Obviously didn't look hard enough .. lol .. ) Think i might crack the Fuchs and check it out.. if it feels crappy I might just go back and get another 75w80 / 30w to match the Honda MTF shall see.. Thanks so much for the help man !

Already done.. it is able to slip out with rev matching , i just figured that the engine load spinning the synchro might ease it off better than with clutch engaged.. (Like turning a ring off a swolen finger vs just pulling it over a knuckle)


shall change out tranny fluid (Gonna do diff oil while at it just for good measure. Due anyways) and adjust clutch pedal (Master cylinder was replaced when I bought the car 3 years ago . don't know if they changed it as well. )

iDomN8U

No way in hell would I leave tranny fluid in there for that long...

Change it out annually or every 10,000km. (this might sound extreme, but you can feel the tranny get more notchy after 10,000KM)

DO NOT LISTEN TO THE MANUAL.. unless you want expensive issues down the road.

It's only 2 quarts a year.

You will wear out the bearings prematurely in the tranny without proper lubrication/protection, it will start making a whirling noise, similar to a throughout bearing but instead it's your tranny.

Please tell me your diff fluid isn't 100k too