Now I can't. You copied it!

BTW, I am glad that I still can be young... sometimes. My children of 11(man-child) and 9(princess) help me "keep it real." I'm not perfect, but I hold certain convictions that were deeply rooted in my upbringing(broken-home, no less). Deprivation is not a bad word. Many parents haven't employed this idea in a coon's age. Again, most of my references have to do with material items.

Very true and most recent scenario: My son needed new shoes. Damn boy won't stop growing! Anyhow, he'd had his eye on a certain pair of sneaks. $60, I believe. I know that shoes go for stupid amounts these days($120+), but adequate shoes can be had for less. He pleaded that he'd pay the difference. The answer was still no. Can I afford the shoes? Sure. But what purpose would it serve? Did he have his normal straight-A report card? No. Had he done something notable unsolicited? Uh-uh. So why indulge in excess? Because the kid down the street or at school has them? Not in my house.


And btw, what's up with girls calling the house? It's supposed to be the other way around! I don't even want to think about my daughter getting older! : pullinghairout:

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FF2Skip
Now I can't.

 

Hey, Skippy! Nice to see you over here! You should drop by more often...I think you will like it. And don't worry about the age thing. You have lots of company.

I'm not sure what I think about this...I don't have kids. I do believe they have it harder in a way, because the values that we had instilled in us seem to have disappeared. Not that some parents aren't working to instill them. Just that the pressures around kids now seem greater to me, in spite of all the craziness that went on when we were teenagers (drugs, sex and rock and roll - woohoo!).

 

Oh man - where to begin.

First off, I am 51 (will be 52 in August) and have a daughter that will be 16 in September. My wife and I have done our best to instill morals, ethics and ambition into our daughter, and we are seeing the benefits (will wonders never cease). Anyway, there are several things that we have noted over the past several years.

1. It seems that young males in our society have lost their ambition to succeed in the business world. There are exceptions of course, but from personal experience, it seems that they want to be taken care of, monetarily, emotionally, physically, and otherwise - without expending too much effort. Between the 28 year old next door, my 16 year old nephew, and a host of other young men I know, none of them have no ambition to go to college, or learn a trade, and most of them depend on mom and dad for a place to live and money to spend.

I have asked myself why several times, and the only thing I can conclude is that they have no role models that drive them to get an education. When I was a child, every boy wanted to be an astronaut, which required a good education, as well as striving to be the best (see the movie "The Right Stuff"), and I don't believe that the role models of today (athletes, rock stars) portray that same image. I also believe that there is peer pressure to dumb down. We have seen that smart young men have to dumb down to fit in.

2. The really baffling part is that the traditional role of young women seems to be changing dramatically. If the young men have no ambition, the young women seem to have their throttles set to afterburner. We know several young women that are graduating high school within days of this writing. They all (yes I do mean all) have taken the steps of getting into Ivy League schools, have gotten excellent grades in school, scholarship offers, and have plenty of ambition.

One could make a case for television causing some of this phenomenon, with almost every male on television being depicted as a buffoon, or at least ineffective, whereas women are shown in power positions. In addition, it seems that most movies depict intelligent men as mousy, scared, or effeminate (sp? - I can't get spell checker to work). For example, in "Van Helsing" the intelligent monk is the comic relief in the movie.

So what do we do about it - I remember Robert Duvall once commented (and I am paraphrasing here) about the role of southerners in movies - that he thought southern men ought to meet movie crews at the Mason-Dixon line, and tell them they are not welcome in the South.

Are men going to have to do the same thing to the entertainment industry. Are we going to have to meet the entertainment industry at the "Mason-Dixon" line and tell them they are not welcome until they start depicting men more realistically?

 

Being possessed of five children (some who have been very, very successful, one who will enter her 2nd year of college in the fall, and one who has yet to truly succeed), I've pondered the content of this thread for some time. I truly do not know how we have five kids who are so different. I suppose we reared five individuals. Some thoughts on the differences in our generation and the upcoming one: (a) The word, "special" has lost its meaning with regard to today's kids: It used to mean possessed of some unusual quality or superior in some way. All our kids are special to us -- but face it, folks, some kids are average and need to understand there will always be someone who is a better achiever, a better athlete, or more intelligent than they are -- they should not pass a class just because they showed up for it and they should not get an A unless they deserve it. (b)Nobody wants to be a bad guy, but belief that kids do not need discipline and they should be free to express themselves any way they want to -- is just plain WRONG. They need to be taught appropriate forms of self expression through art, music, dance, etc -- not by screaming when they're angry, stomping their feet, throwing things or beating up on someone else -- tantrums should not be rewarded. Infantile omnipotence and grandiosity sometimes needs to be deflated.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FF2Skip

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RED MX5
What you say has been true since some time in the 60's, but it wasn't true before then.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by valentine
To summarize:

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NNY S2k

 

Valentine! You asked what I thought about your post. You know we share many point of views on this subject. Again, I concur.

As RED reiterated- from birth. This ties in with consistency, another key concept. And I whole-heartedly agree that today's parent too often tries to befriend their children. You can know what's going on in your child's life without compromising the chain of command. you can be there for them to talk to without them thinking they are your equal. They are not. They are due equal respect as is befitting their behaviour- again, a learned trait. I am guilty of having gone off on verbal tirades in front of my children. What does that teach them? The wrong thing for sure! What are the chances that one or both will display this flaw later on? The thought makes me feel sick that I contribute to teaching a characteristic that I abhor.

ALERT: Potentially big can of worms here! It seems to me, based on zero irrefutable evidence that there is a correlation between when we quit paddling/swatting/cracking our children and the acceleration of the alledged social decline. Again, I am younger than some and do not have the wisdom that only experience brings, however, when we stopped having immediate consequences for knowingly wrongful acts, the bottom seemed to fall out as a by-product.

So, in a nutshell, I endorse your sentiments/philosphies will all my being! And for the record, I've never completed a semester of college.