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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 08:57 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by cordycord,Apr 17 2007, 11:38 AM
One other point mentioned that Virginia allows purchase of guns without a background check, which I found interesting.

Please excuse this post--I am not trying to push Rob's fine thread into politics, so please don't take it as such.
Cordy,

I certainly do agree with your previous post. There are more people in America, and that in fact does magnify everything. A very good point.

I also agree that there are background checks including in the State of Virginia. What troubles me about that is that I'm sure the killer would have passed the background check the day before yesterday. I'm sure he would have qualified to own a gun.

It seems to me that today (perhaps this was always the case and we just hear of it more now) more people are more easily being pushed over the edge. If guns are available some of those people will have them when they are pushed over the edge. And because its so unpredictable I think that if guns are readily available we will see more and more of this kind of tragedy.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 09:22 AM
  #42  
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One of my housemates at Berkeley was a little off. He was into guns and was in the ROTC. He was always talking about things that pissed him off and even once told me that "don't be surprised if you see me picking people off from a clock tower".

During my senior year, he pulled a gun on one of our housemates because he was blocking the driveway. I wasn't there but I heard it was quite a tense scene. Needless to say, he wasn't around for very long after that because we were all afraid to live with him.

So yes, some people seem to live on the emotional edge, ready to snap.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 09:45 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by cordycord,Apr 17 2007, 11:38 AM
I caught a portion of BBC World last night, and the segment quickly digressed into how the VT students had been killed by the NRA. Okay, they didn't say that but they might have.

Two points that stood out were a) they said of Americans that "many believe that they have the right to bear arms" according to the Constitution. The operative word for me was "many", as if the Constitution is a theoretical, nonsensical document.

One other point mentioned that Virginia allows purchase of guns without a background check, which I found interesting.

Please excuse this post--I am not trying to push Rob's fine thread into politics, so please don't take it as such.
I watched the entire report and I found it to be typical BBC, unbiased!!!
In a country where handgun ownership is not allowed they find our fascination with the "right to bear arms" a bit misguided, most people in the world think that is misguided.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 09:56 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by ralper,Apr 17 2007, 11:57 AM
Cordy,

I certainly do agree with your previous post. There are more people in America, and that in fact does magnify everything. A very good point.

I also agree that there are background checks including in the State of Virginia. What troubles me about that is that I'm sure the killer would have passed the background check the day before yesterday. I'm sure he would have qualified to own a gun.

It seems to me that today (perhaps this was always the case and we just hear of it more now) more people are more easily being pushed over the edge. If guns are available some of those people will have them when they are pushed over the edge. And because its so unpredictable I think that if guns are readily available we will see more and more of this kind of tragedy.
I agree with a lot of what you said, Rob. The problem is that as far as guns go, "the cat is out of the bag" and there is no way to put it back in. If we were starting from scratch, and there were no guns in the world, I'd agree that maybe it isn't such a hot idea to release them to people. But we aren't starting over, and there already ARE guns available. Given that set of circumstances, I can only conclude that restricting law-abiding citizens' ability to obtain a gun is counterproductive.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 10:02 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Zippy,Apr 17 2007, 12:45 PM
I watched the entire report and I found it to be typical BBC, unbiased!!!
In a country where handgun ownership is not allowed they find our fascination with the "right to bear arms" a bit misguided, most people in the world think that is misguided.


I understand that the Prime Minister of Australia expressed sympathy for this National Tragedy but also noted a relationship to "....America's Fascination with Guns". I could not agree more.

Isn't it great the the Constitution improved on the underpinings of Merry Old England? I guess the country was just too small and narrow to have a "wild west"
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 10:03 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Chris Stack,Apr 17 2007, 12:56 PM
I agree with a lot of what you said, Rob. The problem is that as far as guns go, "the cat is out of the bag" and there is no way to put it back in. If we were starting from scratch, and there were no guns in the world, I'd agree that maybe it isn't such a hot idea to release them to people. But we aren't starting over, and there already ARE guns available. Given that set of circumstances, I can only conclude that restricting law-abiding citizens' ability to obtain a gun is counterproductive.
But you have to start somewhere. You can't eliminate guns by making them readily available.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 10:06 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Chris Stack,Apr 17 2007, 12:56 PM
....Given that set of circumstances, I can only conclude that restricting law-abiding citizens' ability to obtain a gun is counterproductive.
So, Chris, using your 'logic'....

Let's not try to control drugs.....there are a lot of 'em out on the street already!

Let's not worry about Global Warming in any sense of the word.....there are already holes in the Ozone Layer and the Chinese are driving more and more SUVs

Etc
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 10:39 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by ralper,Apr 17 2007, 01:03 PM
But you have to start somewhere. You can't eliminate guns by making them readily available.
Two answers: 1.) I am not trying to eliminate guns, I want to eliminate crime. 2.) It should be obvious why "starting to eliminate guns" by first restricting legal owners is a bad idea. Why not start with the bad guys (Say, minimum/longer sentences for gun crimes, cracking down on illegal gun sales, etc) instead with the good guys? We have some decent gun laws on the books, they just need more enforcement, we don't need new laws.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 10:45 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by paS2K,Apr 17 2007, 02:06 PM
Let's not try to control drugs.....there are a lot of 'em out on the street already!
I would say that this approach might be just as effective as anything we've tried so far and much cheaper.

Has any goverment agency or entity tried to limit the availability of ammunition as a means of gun control? Would that be any more effective than trying to control the weapons?

I ask because I've never heard or read of any such control.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 10:47 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by hunsfutz2,Apr 16 2007, 11:55 PM
Perhaps the death toll in this incident would have been much lower had faculty or students been trained, qualified gunowners prepared to shoot back.
this may be the dumbest thing i've read on this board.....

i can just see it now:

typical household morning.

mom: jimmy, here's your lunch.
jimmy: thanks mom.
mom: and here's your bus fare.
jimmy: thanks mom.
mom: and here's your GLOCK
jimmy: thanks mom.
mom: have a good day at school...
jimmy: i will....bye.

mom yells after jimmy as he runs out the door to catch the bus: and don't forget to take the safety off if you gotta shoot someone!!

jimmy yells back as he's running: i won't!!!
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