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Old Aug 29, 2006 | 05:57 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by S1997,Aug 29 2006, 09:32 PM
Shaara wants us to know something about the the affinities of Southern society with Mother England and about the position of England toward the war.

Sometimes it is as though the Fremantle character is like the chorus in an ancient Greek drama...it is a running commentary from outside the context of North/South on the war and the battle to come.

Are there other functions of the Fremantle role that are important to the developng story?
I like how General Kemper, in his dialogue with Fremantle, in attempts to justify "the cause," makes the analogy of the south's secession to the cause of the colonies before the revolutionary war:

Kemper: "....know that every government derives its power from the consent of the governed...............we do not consent............we will never consent."

Is the real issue "the consent of the governed", or slavery?
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Old Aug 29, 2006 | 06:04 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 29 2006, 09:35 PM
Yes, that is correct, but only if you are willing to listen to the advice and intelligence that is brought to you. As we are about to see, Longstreet warns Lee of the folly of the attack, but Lee's mind is made up.
I'm not sure Lee's mind is made up.

Longstreet: "He promised me he would stay on the defensive. He said he would look for a good defensive position and let them try to hit us."

Right now, I think Lee just wants to concentrate his army. He doesn't know where the Union army is, and doesn't want to be caught "spread out" in case they "show up."
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Old Aug 29, 2006 | 06:08 PM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 29 2006, 09:38 PM
Yes, that is absolutely right, but its more like a tragedy than a drama. Who is the tragic hero?
Quite the tragedy..........perhaps the hero is freedom?
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Old Aug 29, 2006 | 06:12 PM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by Vitito,Aug 29 2006, 09:08 PM
Quite the tragedy..........perhaps the hero is freedom?
No, I wasn't thinking that. I was thinking of a flesh and blood tragic hero.

I don't want to spoil the discussion with my opinion so I wait a few days until you approach the end of the book.
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Old Aug 29, 2006 | 06:27 PM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 29 2006, 10:12 PM
No, I wasn't thinking that. I was thinking of a flesh and blood tragic hero.

I don't want to spoil the discussion with my opinion so I wait a few days until you approach the end of the book.
He doesn't live long after the war's over...........a tragic hero indeed.
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Old Aug 29, 2006 | 06:32 PM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by Vitito,Aug 29 2006, 09:27 PM
He doesn't live long after the war's over...........a tragic hero indeed.
Yes.
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Old Aug 29, 2006 | 07:21 PM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 29 2006, 07:38 PM
Yes, that is absolutely right, but its more like a tragedy than a drama. Who is the tragic hero?
Rob, I agree with you about it's being a tragedy. I was just using 'drama' as the broader term that includes both tragedy and comedy -- as the two types of drama. And comedy is out.

The tragic hero: yes there is hubris, and there is tragic error!
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Old Aug 29, 2006 | 07:27 PM
  #218  
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Turn back the pages to the beginning if you don't mind. What was Lee's army doing in Pennsylvania to begin with. Why did it venture so far from home when in fact the basis of most of its victories was the fact that it was fighting on home soil while fighting a defensive war. The South didn't have the resources or the productive ability that the North did. It could barely supply itself when at home, how could it supply itself when so far from home.

What were they doing there?
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Old Aug 29, 2006 | 07:43 PM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 29 2006, 10:27 PM
.....The South didn't have the resources or the productive ability that the North did. It could barely supply itself when at home, how could it supply itself when so far from home.

What were they doing there?
They were trying to shake up the Washington elite who were pundits and armchair observers of all the battles fought in the south. Now there was the added temptation to cut Meade's army off from Washington....if a they were not massed quickly enough to rebuff their attack from the west.

The southern army was supplied by the farming communities in Pennsylvania....stripped bare as the troops passed through. There was a passage about 'going shopping for shoes'....

But how were munitions and other materiel transported over the great distances from Richmond, etc?
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Old Aug 29, 2006 | 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by paS2K,Aug 29 2006, 10:43 PM
But how were munitions and other materiel transported over the great distances from Richmond, etc?
Thats exactly the supplies that I was thinking of. Food and perhaps even clothing wasn't the problem, but where do you get the materiel of war?

I wonder if the Confederate army was doomed before Gettysburg even took place. Gettysburg was an adventure that was perhaps a bit too ambitious for the Southern Forces.
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