The Killer Angels
As to what thConfederate army is doing there, I always go back to the Foreword. Lee knows a letter of peace will be placed on Lincoln's desk the day he destroys the Union army. He is on a mission. He wants and needs to get it done fast. One big engagement. His side has the military minds. His side has the accumulated victories. His side has high morale.
This is why Stuart has failed them. If they knew of the location of the Northern army, they would have moved into Gettysburg earlier and taken the high ground.
This is why Stuart has failed them. If they knew of the location of the Northern army, they would have moved into Gettysburg earlier and taken the high ground.
Back to Longstreet for one last attempt at discussing the book by chapter before we just go for the free for all.
The talk with Armistead is poignant. It seems the true reason Lo ha sought out old Pete is to discuss "their last night together" before the war and his old friend Hancock. We have een told in the foreword that Hancock waits on a hill for Armistead. Now Lo is told by Longstreet tha he could just go see him under a flag of truce. Seems simple enough. Could he actually do it?
The debate over the reason for suscession briefly details the argument. The south didn't withdraw because of slavery, the dissolved the union because they didn't want to be told what they could or couldn't do by the federal government. Did thisargument hold together for you? To me, it was just a piece of lawyering. If he real reason for our actions sounds bad, find a reason for the real reason that sounds better. One can always argue "It isn't about the fact that I do X, it is about you trying to stop me from doing X." Pickett has is beloved analogy of a gentleman's club. Is the constitution the bylaws of a "gentleman's club." The union has been in place for over 80 years at this point and both north and south have a pretty good understanding of the federal govenment'sability to pass laws to govern things not spelled out in the constitution. If you remember the days of our founding fathers, slavery was already an issue. Southern states wanted the right to hold slaves and northern states did not. Some northern representatives wanted to abolish slavery even then. The point is, the right to own slaves is not protected by the constitution and the southern politicians know it.
Consider Longstreet's response to Pickett's analogy. Does he disagree? Does he just not care?
The talk with Armistead is poignant. It seems the true reason Lo ha sought out old Pete is to discuss "their last night together" before the war and his old friend Hancock. We have een told in the foreword that Hancock waits on a hill for Armistead. Now Lo is told by Longstreet tha he could just go see him under a flag of truce. Seems simple enough. Could he actually do it?
The debate over the reason for suscession briefly details the argument. The south didn't withdraw because of slavery, the dissolved the union because they didn't want to be told what they could or couldn't do by the federal government. Did thisargument hold together for you? To me, it was just a piece of lawyering. If he real reason for our actions sounds bad, find a reason for the real reason that sounds better. One can always argue "It isn't about the fact that I do X, it is about you trying to stop me from doing X." Pickett has is beloved analogy of a gentleman's club. Is the constitution the bylaws of a "gentleman's club." The union has been in place for over 80 years at this point and both north and south have a pretty good understanding of the federal govenment'sability to pass laws to govern things not spelled out in the constitution. If you remember the days of our founding fathers, slavery was already an issue. Southern states wanted the right to hold slaves and northern states did not. Some northern representatives wanted to abolish slavery even then. The point is, the right to own slaves is not protected by the constitution and the southern politicians know it.
Consider Longstreet's response to Pickett's analogy. Does he disagree? Does he just not care?
Originally Posted by Legal Bill,Aug 30 2006, 06:53 AM
The point is, the right to own slaves is not protected by the constitution and the southern politicians know it.
It wasn't until 1 January 1863 that Lincoln signed teh Emancipation Proclamation which freed slaves ONLY " within the rebellious states ."
Originally Posted by ajlafleche,Aug 30 2006, 10:03 AM
Actually, it was. Article 4, section 2, "No person held to service or labor in one state, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due." deals with fugitive slaves. It was not unti the 13th ammendment was passed in 1865 that involuntary servitude was abolished.
It wasn't until 1 January 1863 that Lincoln signed teh Emancipation Proclamation which freed slaves ONLY " within the rebellious states ."
It wasn't until 1 January 1863 that Lincoln signed teh Emancipation Proclamation which freed slaves ONLY " within the rebellious states ."
I will admit that many thought the institution ws protected in the constitution (even Lincoln), so my conclusory statement is probably too strong.
I don't believe congress had the ability to do this before the 13th amendment and had the emancipation proclamation not been directed at the states in rebellion, they would have had recourse to challenge this under the tenth ammendement, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." Which brings us back to the states' rights thing.
Originally Posted by Legal Bill,Aug 30 2006, 06:39 AM
As to what thConfederate army is doing there, I always go back to the Foreword. Lee knows a letter of peace will be placed on Lincoln's desk the day he destroys the Union army. He is on a mission. He wants and needs to get it done fast. One big engagement. His side has the military minds. His side has the accumulated victories. His side has high morale.
This is why Stuart has failed them. If they knew of the location of the Northern army, they would have moved into Gettysburg earlier and taken the high ground.
This is why Stuart has failed them. If they knew of the location of the Northern army, they would have moved into Gettysburg earlier and taken the high ground.
Prior to Gettysburg, Lee has used the defense, and flanking maneuvers, to position his consistently smaller forces to achieve victories against greater numbers. He uses maneuver, and the ground, to the advantage of his smaller army.
Lee has to destroy the Union Army, but he does not have to destroy it this month. He just has to destroy it, weaken it. If he achieves either, with his forces on Northern soil, the people of the north/politicians, will lose their will to fight.
Why change strategy and tactics now, particularly if your intelligence is poor?
Originally Posted by Vitito,Aug 30 2006, 05:32 PM
Why change strategy and tactics now, particularly if your intelligence is poor?
To me that is the jist of the book. That is the entire story. Lee, the much loved and admired brilliant general who starts out as the hero, makes his decision, a poor one, and ends up losing everything. In my opinion, everything else is just a sideshow (and interesting one, but still a sideshow). The book is all about Lee and his decision to attack.
Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 29 2006, 11:27 PM
Turn back the pages to the beginning if you don't mind. What was Lee's army doing in Pennsylvania to begin with. Why did it venture so far from home when in fact the basis of most of its victories was the fact that it was fighting on home soil while fighting a defensive war. The South didn't have the resources or the productive ability that the North did. It could barely supply itself when at home, how could it supply itself when so far from home.
What were they doing there?
What were they doing there?
2) Virginia and the south's resources are being drained. All of the fighting has taken place on southern soil. Much of it in Virginia. The south needs to get the fighting out of Virginia, to allow the crops to recover, etc. The Shenandoah is the bread-basket of the Confederacy.
3) Force a fight. Since the Union Army, reeling from the recent defeats at Fredericksburg and Chancellorsvile, will be forced to pusue Lee, it can be lured out of the south, and "destroyed".
I'm not sure Lee felt "rushed" to destroy the Union Army by a certain date. Certainly, the sooner the better. He knows the longer the war goes on, the less likely the south would be to win the war. But he's coming off a series of victories, so what is the rush?
Originally Posted by Vitito,Aug 30 2006, 05:43 PM
3) Force a fight. Since the Union Army, reeling from the recent defeats at Fredericksburg and Chancellorsvile, will be forced to pusue Lee, it can be lured out of the south, and "destroyed".









