The Killer Angels
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Originally Posted by Legal Bill,Sep 16 2006, 09:37 AM
I'm glad you enjoyed it Jim. I hope the discussion here will continue. I expected some conjecture, theorizing and "what ifs?" at this point in the discussion. I also thought I would leave room for others to start the discussion of Lee's decision to hit the middle of the Union line on day three. Just some of my observations on that.
1. He decides on this plan of action in the middle of the night while he is exhausted.
2. He bases it on conjecture (The union will have reinforced the flanks, weakening the middle.)
3. He still does not consider further maneuvers to the right or rear.
4. He has not even consulted with Longstreet who now knows the ground to the right.
5. What on earth makes him think they can do it???
Ok, I ask that last question because I have been to the field and I have seen the positions. You'll all know what I am talking about when we go there.
1. He decides on this plan of action in the middle of the night while he is exhausted.
2. He bases it on conjecture (The union will have reinforced the flanks, weakening the middle.)
3. He still does not consider further maneuvers to the right or rear.
4. He has not even consulted with Longstreet who now knows the ground to the right.
5. What on earth makes him think they can do it???
Ok, I ask that last question because I have been to the field and I have seen the positions. You'll all know what I am talking about when we go there.
Goes hand-in-hand with your point #2 Bill.
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From: Randolph, NJ
I wonder what would have happened if Lee had avoided the Union Army at Gettysburg altogether. Would the outcome of the war had been any different, or would it have ended the same way, with the same amount of deaths, only a year or two later?
What do you think?
What do you think?
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From: The (S)Low Country
^^ Lee could not avoid the Union Army. His point in the confrontation was that he knew the Army of the Potomac was amassing its forces there, he knew a letter offering peace would be delivered to Lincoln on the day after he defeated the Northern Army in Pennsylvania, so there can be no what if scenario. This battle was meant to be. The only what-if scenario could be what if he'd been successful and that too, was not meant to be.
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From: Philly (Narberth)
Originally Posted by ralper,Sep 17 2006, 07:20 AM
I wonder what would have happened if Lee had avoided the Union Army at Gettysburg altogether. ....
The confrontation might have taken place in Carlisle (more hills and valleys) or even Harrisburg (problem of a river crossing
)....a possible ultimate goal of the Confederate army.
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Originally Posted by ralper,Sep 17 2006, 08:20 AM
I wonder what would have happened if Lee had avoided the Union Army at Gettysburg altogether. Would the outcome of the war had been any different, or would it have ended the same way, with the same amount of deaths, only a year or two later?
What do you think?
What do you think?
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Originally Posted by ralper,Sep 17 2006, 11:30 AM
Thats sort of what I was wondering about. If by some twist of fate the two armies hadn't met at Gettysburg would the outcome of the war have been any different?
I think not. I think perhaps the war would have dragged on for another year or two, but ultimately, the outcome would have been the same.
I don't think there was much difference in the courage of the fighting forces, and I think that the south had better leadership, but I think that the north had more resources and could support their army for longer. I think the southern army would have run out of materiel and starved.
Of course it's all speculation, and we can't change the course of history, but it is facinating to try to imagine what might have been.
I think not. I think perhaps the war would have dragged on for another year or two, but ultimately, the outcome would have been the same.
I don't think there was much difference in the courage of the fighting forces, and I think that the south had better leadership, but I think that the north had more resources and could support their army for longer. I think the southern army would have run out of materiel and starved.
Of course it's all speculation, and we can't change the course of history, but it is facinating to try to imagine what might have been.
Though I would say that the Union had excellent leadership as well, and it was readily evident in this battle.
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From: The (S)Low Country
Originally Posted by Vitito,Sep 17 2006, 07:16 AM
http://www.ndu.edu/inss/DefHor/DH54/DH54.p...nd%20pickett%22
Goes hand-in-hand with your point #2 Bill.
Goes hand-in-hand with your point #2 Bill.
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Originally Posted by valentine,Sep 18 2006, 05:43 PM
^^ Excellent reading, Vito. Jim and I LOVED it. He's printed it for further reflection.
I really liked the authors comments about General Lee changing his "model" of the Union leaderships/troops after Gettysburg. Which is probably why he continued to cause the Union "difficulties" for the next two years.
You will enjoy the two J. Shaara books, if you enjoyed KA.
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From: The (S)Low Country
Over and over I've noticed well thought decisions made by the Union and it appears that General Lee simply overestimated the ability of his "invincible" troops and the Union enterprised on that overestimation through thoughtful planning and execution. I read someplace (can't remember where) that General Lee often issued general orders without giving detail as to how to carry them out and left the detail up to his subordinates (he apparently delegated well). Perhaps if he'd paid more attention to detail, he'd have fared better at Gettysburg. I agree that Meade should have gone forward and ended the ordeal at Gettysburg, but Meade had to live with his decision as well.