The Killer Angels
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 18,885
Likes: 33
From: Philly (Narberth)
Excuse this out-of-sequence sidebar, but I'm away off-line for the next 3 days. I wanted to share this pic of your devoted pit crew last Sunday.....looking NW from the middle of Little Round Top....past the statue of General Warren.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by paS2K,Sep 8 2006, 08:26 PM
Warren did recon at that Rocky Hill and saw a big hole in the defense. He called for someone to fill that hole. Vincent's brigade did the job....anchored on the south end by the 20th Maine. It's truly a remarkable story.....we'll soon get to Day 2 
I came across an interesting critique of the battle. Did Meade make the right call to fight at Gettysburg? What made Meade think Lee would attack there on day 2, vice reposition to the right like Longstreet wanted to do? Did Meade leave Washington vulnerable?
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 33,171
Likes: 1,639
From: Randolph, NJ
Originally Posted by S1997,Sep 9 2006, 08:40 AM
That is the tragedy. In this novel he is being swept along by the maelstrom, the inevitable, predestined march of time. Fate versus choice. God versus man. Right versus wrong, individual versus universal. If this is the case, what then is his fatal flaw? What is his vulnerability?
Most of us are looking at KA as an historical document -- one of the many sources of information about the Civil War. So we may or may not be focussing entirely on the novel, but rather drawing on the actually known historical entries about the war. In a way that is different. That makes the discussion more interesting for our purposes. So the opinion that the story is a tragedy is a personal evaluation, not a statement about Shaara's novel, that, no matter how historically accurate, is still a work of fiction. Most of the thoughts of the characters in the novel are historically inferred and presented artistically as a piece of literature. I agree that Shaara is giving it the contours of a tragedy. I guess we'll see whether we all agree by the end.
Most of us are looking at KA as an historical document -- one of the many sources of information about the Civil War. So we may or may not be focussing entirely on the novel, but rather drawing on the actually known historical entries about the war. In a way that is different. That makes the discussion more interesting for our purposes. So the opinion that the story is a tragedy is a personal evaluation, not a statement about Shaara's novel, that, no matter how historically accurate, is still a work of fiction. Most of the thoughts of the characters in the novel are historically inferred and presented artistically as a piece of literature. I agree that Shaara is giving it the contours of a tragedy. I guess we'll see whether we all agree by the end.
Absolutely.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 65,392
Likes: 4,683
From: Smalltown
On topic, but not book club topic, on Legal Bill's advice we rented "Gettysburg" (the movie). We watched about 1/2 this evening. We give it 
I think watching the movie and reading the book, will give us a better understanding of what transpired at Gettysburg.
I think watching the movie and reading the book, will give us a better understanding of what transpired at Gettysburg.
Former Moderator
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,122
Likes: 629
From: Houston/Durango
Originally Posted by Lainey8484,Sep 9 2006, 08:07 PM
On topic, but not book club topic, on Legal Bill's advice we rented "Gettysburg" (the movie). We watched about 1/2 this evening. We give it I think watching the movie and reading the book, will give us a better understanding of what transpired at Gettysburg.
I think watching the movie and reading the book, will give us a better understanding of what transpired at Gettysburg. I actually bought it from amazon.com when I ordered the book. 
Chris and I are watching it again now.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by S1997,Sep 9 2006, 09:40 AM
According to Shaara it seems that Lee has no real separate choice in this decision.
Now at the end of day 1 he has the success of the day to add to his reasons for confidence. He is tired and ill. He knows that the war in in its final stages. He must fight to win. We see through Shaara's eyes that he really has no choice in fighting the Union army right here.
That is the tragedy.
Now at the end of day 1 he has the success of the day to add to his reasons for confidence. He is tired and ill. He knows that the war in in its final stages. He must fight to win. We see through Shaara's eyes that he really has no choice in fighting the Union army right here.
That is the tragedy.
"It had not been intended to deliver a general battle so far from our base unless attacked, but coming unexpectedly upon the whole Federal Army, to withdraw through the mountains with our extensive trains would have been difficult and dangerous. At the same time we were unable to await an attack, as the country was unfavorable for collecting supplies in the presence of the enemy, who could restrain our foraging parties by holding the mountain passes with local and other troops. A battle had, therefore, become in a measure unavoidable, and the success already gained gave hope of a favorable issue."
So General Lee decides to stay and fight, and he formulates an attack plan that is capable of producing a victory on day2.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 34,131
Likes: 126
From: Canton, MA
Originally Posted by Vitito,Sep 10 2006, 12:08 AM
Lee's campaign report, Jan 1864:
"It had not been intended to deliver a general battle so far from our base unless attacked, but coming unexpectedly upon the whole Federal Army, to withdraw through the mountains with our extensive trains would have been difficult and dangerous. At the same time we were unable to await an attack, as the country was unfavorable for collecting supplies in the presence of the enemy, who could restrain our foraging parties by holding the mountain passes with local and other troops. A battle had, therefore, become in a measure unavoidable, and the success already gained gave hope of a favorable issue."
So General Lee decides to stay and fight, and he formulates an attack plan that is capable of producing a victory on day2.
"It had not been intended to deliver a general battle so far from our base unless attacked, but coming unexpectedly upon the whole Federal Army, to withdraw through the mountains with our extensive trains would have been difficult and dangerous. At the same time we were unable to await an attack, as the country was unfavorable for collecting supplies in the presence of the enemy, who could restrain our foraging parties by holding the mountain passes with local and other troops. A battle had, therefore, become in a measure unavoidable, and the success already gained gave hope of a favorable issue."
So General Lee decides to stay and fight, and he formulates an attack plan that is capable of producing a victory on day2.
Here are the Lee factors that are inescapable so far.
1. He is in enemy territory.
2. He is invading on ground he once swore to defend.
3. He is acutely aware of his own mortality, a point Vito and the Lee advocates refuse to face in this discussion.
4. He has lost his best field general.
5. The replacement leaders are untested and indecisive.
6. Lee is prideful (fatal flaw #1, Jim).
7. Lee is buying his Army's own PR (We can't be beat, they always run, 1 of us can beat 10 of them.)
Sadly, we will see more factors in the coming chapters.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 34,131
Likes: 126
From: Canton, MA
Day 2, chapter 1 Freemantle.
What is Shaara's reason for injecting Freemantle's view of the Confederate situation on the morning of day 2. What do we learn seeing the situation through Freemantle's eyes first?
What is Shaara's reason for injecting Freemantle's view of the Confederate situation on the morning of day 2. What do we learn seeing the situation through Freemantle's eyes first?