The reason for joining is to help s2ki serve, maintain and grow the international S2000 owner community. We need the money so we ask for your generosity. In exchange we do offer some extra services but that's not really the point; we are not in the web hosting business, we are in the S2000 community business.

Memberships offer us a more reliable and predictable revenue source to make plans with than a "donate now" button. There are a vast number of other reasons that make membership a superior option for us to collect donations/contributions/hand-outs, predictability is just one. It helps us to know with reasonable accuracy how much revenue we can expect 3 months from now when we consider how much money we can offer to help sponsor an event or add another server or what not.

Being a Guest does not impart any expectation of service. You may read, post and participate in a limited way. Those limits change from time to time but you shouldn't expect anything in terms of service. Members help pay for the operation of the site and have an expectation of service and we offer that to them by providing support, reasonable responses to their questions and concerns and extra goodies as you describe.

Just because we don't charge a fee for admission doesn't necessarily mean we don't expect you to kick in a few bucks. Virtually all of the net profit from operations goes back to the community in some form. What I take is very modest, just enough to cover some very basic expenses I have but very little at that. As an illustration I couldn't hire someone to do anything, not even answer the phone, for what I make from s2ki. I'm not even sure if I meet the California minimum wage laws. Personally I don't think that's fair but it's the way it is right now. I like doing what I do and I hope I can delta some of the skills I learn from running s2ki into something profitable. I started a couple of other websites and have been doing some consulting in the hope of earning a living. s2ki is still my primary "job", mainly by choice, and I put in 10+ hours a day, working 13 of every 14 days or so.

Something like s2ki doesn't happen by magic, it takes a lot of work and money. I hope that people will pony up a few dollars to help but only if they think the work I do is of value. I can tell if someone does because they keep coming back and using s2ki daily or at least regularly. If you only read the information or if you only come and use the site a few times a year I don't expect you to have to pay anything. More than that I do. The site exists, runs well and runs without serious problems because of the financial contribution members make. Without them I couldn't buy servers, pay for internet service or spend any time at all on it. I certainly couldn't justify getting up at 2:30 AM to fix a server crash without them.

You aren't being muscled. Your expectations of what you get for free is just too high. If your aim is to not see any ads then you need to become a Gold Member so you can turn them off and make up for the revenue we lose from not having them. Trust me, if I could run s2ki without advertising or advertisers I would. It's a lot of effort and selling advertising is nasty hard work I'd rather not do if I could. That's not a reality though. I need to have revenue from both sources to survive.

No single option is sufficient. Seriously, I've spend probably 80 hours in the last 8 days doing nothing but coding on the advertising software. I could have spent that time doing many other things but I need more revenue from sponsors (which is virtually nil at the moment) to pay my mortgage at the end of the month. It's the 15th and there are few prospects for raising the money I need to live on before then. My wife will need to subsidize my lack of income yet again. If you are married then you understand what that means.

In all honesty concern about what you get for nothing is not a big priority for me, in fact it's a non-priority. I've got bigger issues to solve and my focus is on serving the membership and the sponsors. I owe them the time and effort. I don't feel I owe you free access to specific documents or an unfettered communication stream with the community. I'm just being honest and blunt about it, not trying to be rude. If I didn't need the money from memberships I wouldn't ask for it. I ask because I need it. s2ki is a very marginal operation. It doesn't make any significant profit and making ends meet every month is a constant struggle. Memberships take that pressure off me, make me a happier guy and motivate me to spend more time and energy on making s2ki better, not just as a website but as a community in general.

I want everyone who uses s2ki on a regular basis to become a member at a level which reflects their activity and use of the service. I will continue to offer the basic information contained within s2ki for free to everyone because a lot of people want to read it and I'm not going to charge them for occasional use. These are Guests. They come from time to time, read a bit, ask a question and then don't come back for a few weeks or months. I welcome them and hope s2ki offers them a tremendously valuable resource when they need it. Mostly I hope they will get hooked on this great community, participate regularly, get involved locally, attend meets and events, meet some great people AND become members.

A Guest is quite literally someone who comes by occasionally, stays for a while and them leaves. If they are good guests we invite them to come back again. If a Guest becomes an active participant then I expect them to also become a Member. You know what they say about guests and fish right? The Guest group we have should actually be divided into two: Guests and Squatters. I leave the choice of when you become a Member to you in the hope you know which you are. If you act like and consider yourself a Member but are a Guest then I ask you pay your dues like everyone else.

HTH explain the basis of what Membership is, why we have it and why you should consider being one.

 

You could still tell them to search or give a link

What's so about being a member?

 

There is nothing about being a member; the referred to not being able to give links to information that is "members only" when a newbie asks. I personally do not care for the girly pictures forum or the email/hosting features provided by this board, but I do see some information (such as the TSBs) are very specific to the S2000 community and if the purpose of this board is to serve the S2000 community, then the S2000 specific information should be available to all. Benefits for members can be provided in other areas, such as less advertisements displayed.

Having said all that, I think this board is a great service to the (S2000) community, even if the "TSBs for members only" feature is implemented. I appreciate all the work and contributions performed by all the people involved. So please do not take what I said as a complaint, just an opinion.

 

Benefits to members, which you don't require so you don't become a member?

So if the benefits change, and then compell you to become a member, you still don't want to become a member.

the words "cake" and "eat it" come to mind

 

I mean is $20 or $50 alot to pay for a great community...

 

 

Since a little over two years ago, when I was first told about this site, I have become a "constant" enthusiest. It has become more than addicting! Way back, when the "S" first came out, to the public, I was captivated with it. My other-half and I talked about how much fun it would be to purchase one. I am NO computer person, by no means. Just an "Old/Fart" who enjoys this car and community so much, it's hard to put into words. I don't use 1/10th of the things available to me on this site, mainly, because I don't know how to! I can say, that because of this community, I purchased my "Beloved S" in '03. I have met so many new friends, and have become quite active in S2KI sponsored events. To me.... the $50 bucks a year, or what ever it may end up, I am "MORE" than happy to pay! The information, friends and companionship of this group of people, well, you just can't put a price on.I just can't imagine what it would be like, if the first thing in the morning or the last thing at night, when I would scramble to my computer, and "S2KI"wouldn't be there!!!!

 

I couldn't say it any better than he did... the people I have met on here mean the world to me

 

can you clarify the reduction of ads that gold membership creates?
yes, i could use ad removal programs, but they are often buggy with undesired results, and i already have a pop-up blocker (not needed here), but if i remain a 'guest' i feel it is my responsibility to view and USE the advertisements and sponsors. they honestly don't bother me that much. and clearly this site (and it's bandwidth alone) cannot exist without some sort of advertisement or support.


also, it's not a matter of wanting the TSB's that badly. that was a great service imo that the site provided, and now, it is gone for many, except for a $20 yearly fee.


and it's not a matter of S2ki not providing enough for $20/year.
i will readily state that i think the services they provide are a bargin at $20/year. however, i don't need those additional services. if i own a house and it meets all my residential needs, why rent an apartment i would never use? however, the removal of advertising DOES represent a value to me. i get tired of ads, everywhere (not just here). paying a modest fee for them to go away? that's of value to me. it was just one thing that comes to mind as something i'd like to see if i paid money.
but donating just for the feel good aspect of supporting the community? i apologize, but i've seen from the periphery some of the adminstration tactics here, and i don't agree with how they are implemented. it IS your website, you are FULLY within your rights to administer it as you will, it is also within my rights to disagree and not provide money for (what is to me) no return.
i DO support the S2000 community however, i do not support S2ki.com out of a feeling of gratitude. i use the sponsors, i click the ads, (and thus get products and services i need) and i try to contribute to the community as a whole (community = people, website = tool/medium).

so,
am i grateful for the tool that cthree, krazik, and hondagal provide? yes, very much so. i admin and finance a small computer gaming site myself - it is a lot of work, and is no where near the scale of this site. i can see how this requires full time (and more) effort to keep going.
do i expect any more service that i already receive? no.
will i become a member when the site offers me a product, service, or enhancement that i value? yes, it is likely.

however, in my personal opinion, taking a provided free service, reigning it in, and then calling it a 'extra goody' - well, that's really not an extra goody is it? i guess that was a 3+ year trial sample.


i guess the question now is -- are TSB's year round worth $20 for me?
and it may be that you've found my 'button.'


i just mourn for those who come here for the first time, who are not a part of the community, and will not be able to use what was once a great free service -- thus, they may not recognize this site as the resource it is, and never become part of the community.



(also, not being rude cthree, but something to consider is if you want to really cut down on costs or push up on members - do what the [H]ard|Forums from www.hardocp.com did... make the off topics section a pay/members section... and enforce it. imo, the off topics section here is entertaining, but is generally speaking, a waste of your resources. also, while i recognize your struggle and admire your willingness to make it your career, that was a choice. would i like to have my little gaming site take off and make that my career? heck yeah...)

(edit: fixed links)

 

A huge amount of our active Metro crew are paid members.....The amount of money they have saved, just by using the info found here, is in the thousands....The friends we have made are priceless....it had made the s2k 100 times more enjoyable than it could be. So we will stand behind the site 100% with what it has givin us. 5.5 cents a day is nothing, even at minimum wage