That i may have been offended by the thread in question does NOT make me a bin Laden supporter. All it makes me is a person who is sensitive to the suffering of an inordinate number of people who had nothing whatsoever to do with the attack on Americans.

Any suggestion by those people in this thread that anyone who doesnt wholeheartedly support the anihilation of every single Afghanistani must therefore actively support bin Laden, should be treated with the derision it deserves.

On the subject of moderation, I posted my reaction to the original thread whilst it was still open, and offered to remove my comments should they have been considered offensive or counter-productive. I received no such suggestion, so I left them. Any personal attack or offense was never an objective or an intention, and if anyone perceived it that was, I genuinely apologise.

 

Well, I hope some of the members insulting me (without being moderated if I'm not mistaken?) have not already decided to use their ignore list (remember that 'ignore' is a very close word to 'ignorance'), because I'd like to clarify a few points :

- First I'm not anti-American, I just find it interesting to question things and cultural differences, and I think this forum, and the internet on a broader scale, is a fantastic tool to discover what people that you may never meet in an ordinary life think. Just realize : where else could a snobby arrogant 26yrs old French Graphic designer with preconceived ideas meet a placid 45yrs old Texan Biologist with ideas as preconceived??
I've always voiced my opinions, never in an insulting way, and almost always half-joking and witty, with a provocative tone, knowing that most people would get it, and a few others would make fools of themselves by pathetically unleashing their patriotic anger.
Those who were there on the previous board (H-A.net) might remember that one my first ever posts was entitled "S2K: too good for Americans?", and was basically a good-humored story on how this car didn't belong in the country of Drag-racing and 55mph speed limits. Of course some members immediately insulted me, but mostly everyone thought it was funny, and few could argue against the brutal and obvious comparison between NASCAR and Rallying

- Then the terrorists attacked NYC and Washington.

- On that day, while Americans (and the world) were counting their dead, I posted a remark saying that I was afraid of an uncontrolled burst of revenge from GW Bush, adding that, as I had said before, WE (almost everyone I know, www.bushisms.com , and most of the European media) were scared because we consider him "intellectually challenged"
Stupidly enough, it didn't occur to me that people would get so offended by this, and since I left my office to drive back to france, I could neither remove my post nor defend myself.
Now I realize that this was not necessarily the right moment to say that, and I apologize again.
A few weeks later, you might be interested in reading an article written on an American website, treating a similar subject :
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/...racy/index.html
It's interesting to notice that ElTianti was laughed at my most members on this board before, and now he can spit his extremist and blind words with everyone cheering...
And for the thread we're talking about, I think it's good that it's still here, so that people can look at it and re-read my posts : someone posted a political image of very bad taste (in fact before seeing it here I had read about it in a British newspaper, where it was cited as an example of the ignorant rage boiling in the brain of some Americans), I just said that it was bad. Then the usual intolerance begun... I wonder if the UK members would laugh as much if someone was to post a map of the British Isles with a nice empty space in the west, named "Sea of Ireland"?

The only thing that doesn't sadden me too much (yes, I'm usually sad when I witness intolerance and stupidity), is that luckily, I received some support from various members, Australian mostly, but also Americans. Otherwise I would have ended to believe what my friends always told me when I bought this car : "what?!! A sports convertible?? With red seats? like all those stupid fascist yuppies??"

 

le car, the members whom have insulted you have been pm'd. Because a line or comment is not deleted does not mean the moderators are not doing there job.

Behind the scenes stuff does happen. If members wish a comment to be sensored you need to let us know.

usually one moderator is on the board, so all take a look at the bottom of the main forum's page, you can see the members visiting the board. If you find a moderator, pm them right away.

We can not be on the board all the time. We have real jobs

Stay cool guys!

 

See, sometimes you post things that others don't think is half-joking or witty and sometimes it's the other way around.

Dave

 

Le Car,

As usual, your flippant attitude is apparent. I'm saying this as an observer and not as a critic. One of the reasons people perceive this is because your comments offend, knowingly or not. You and your friends as you call them, place yourself above those that have been empowered by a majority rule.

[QUOTE]- On that day, while Americans (and the world) were counting their dead, I posted a remark saying that I was afraid of an uncontrolled burst of revenge from GW Bush, adding that, as I had said before, WE (almost everyone I know, www.bushisms.com , and most the European media) were scared because we consider him "intellectually challenged"

 

JRM,

First, thanks for taking the time to answer to my post, in a very civilized way (much more polite than the burst of anger you had in that removed post - I finally managed to read that one ).
Second, thanks for improving my knowledge of the english language (I had to search for the meaning of a few of the words you used - "gullable" was easy, but couldn't find any trace of "rederic ").



But,

I have to disagree with you on the this GW Bush thing :

- I consider it my most basic right to criticize a country's president, I even think it's a necessity. Remember that places where this right is removed from the people are called tyrannic regimes. If you want to go ahead and do comments on Chirac's corrupted manners (I guess you could care less), do it, it's your right. If you think I can't say what I think of your president, then explain me why. I also think presidents should be highly educated people, inspiring and almost flawlessly literate.
Remember that the most common things you could read about W's personality (I'll come to his politic decisions later) were his difficulties to pronounce foreign names, the fact that he had only been out of the USA a couple of times, and his supposed dumbness.

- I said "most the European media", you read "the entire European Media"

Before the 11th, he made himself extremely unpopular in Europe with his stance on the death penalty, guns, his refusal to sign the Kyoto treaty, and his financial support of religious charity groups, among others.
Of course some people did not think he was that bad, but the MAJORITY of the European media was very wary. And before you ask me if I can read German or Spanish, no I can't, but we have this wonderful weekly paper in France called "Courrier International", which translates articles from the worldwide press, from Swaziland to Norway. So "I know what I'm talking about", to answer one of the points of your observation.
And even though the Bush administration has so far handed this crisis with cleverness, they couldn't control every word coming out of his mouth, and he managed to give the terrorists exactly what they wanted : a holy war ("crusade", "good against evil", and too many references to god to count), and a caricatural Sheriff enemy ("dead or alive", "smoke'em out", "folks")

Tolerance?

well I suggest you read again my posts if you think I'm intolerant. And do a search with ElTianti in it, and look at how I answered all his INTOLERANT attacks. (example : https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...&threadid=18093)

I don't exactly see what you consider intolerant in my attitude. Is it because sometimes my opinions differ?
Also you might have noticed that my username (& avatar) is already a sign of the non-seriousness of my attitude on this board. All those anti-American comments that might have been posted in the past were written by someone who uses the most ridiculous export of his country to present himself (I can't think of anything worse - maybe French music, before Daft Punk ). Kind of like the equivalent of someone called Aztec, and using as his avatar a nice pic of a yellow Pontiac

and just for the (not so) fun of it, here is a short medley of the very tolerant stuff posted here by my favorite member :

We are in a death match with the Muslim world.
(...)
America must unleash a conflagration death the likes of which the world has never seen. America should commit to using nuclear bombs on the responsible governments. That's right, we should kill five hundred thousand people. If that means global nuclear war. fine. American must be the last man standing or make sure no one else is.
(...)
We are looking at a conflict of tribes. Today we call them Countries, but they are tribes nonetheless. That is people who coalesce around shared values / beliefs. Sometimes these tribes clash, Romans vs. Germans, Athenians vs. Spartans, Jews vs. Palestinians, Western world vs. Muslim world. These conflicts end when one side is vanquished and no sooner.
(...)
We should attack all the counties that have ever been involved in attacking Americans. Now is the time to settle ALL scores. Syria, Iraq, Iran, Palestine all of them. Kill them all.
(...)
The rest of the world must be made to fear the United States. That is why only nuclear weapons will do.

Sorry if this gets a bit political...

 

Le Car takes great offense at El Tianti's comments. Le Car does not appear to take offense at the stream of threats against the US and its citizens streaming over CNN, MSNBC, and the Arab news services. The gist of them seem to be, that they have declared a jihad against America, that all Americans are fair game and fair targets. So far, they have killed 7000 innocent people in NY and Washington DC. We have suffered the first biological attack against our nation - anthrax, a horror. The nature of these attacks, and this war have been announced - Holy War against Christians and Jews. El Tianti suggests by his posts that we should not only take these attacks seriously, but we should accept the nature of the war which is being waged against us. El Tianti's point seems to be that unless we respond to the war which is actually being waged against us, we are doomed to failure. El Tianti's opinions may be politically incorrect - they may also be simply slightly ahead of public opinion. For example, if a successful follow up CBorN attack takes a hundred thousand American lives, El Tianti's views may very well become the majority position here.

Clearly, Le Car, you view yourself as superior to El Tianti as well as George Bush and dismiss his opinions in a contemptuous manner. You are welcome to your opinions, it's still a free country, although that's under siege as well. Perhaps you should be a bit more tolerant of El Tianti's opinions. He's entitled to his as you are to yours.

What exactly are your opinions on these matters?

 

The comments are getting off topic to the original thread starter. Keep on track.

This is not the thread or the forum to hash out your political views. "No Politics" Please.

 

Le Car:

Your highly educated, inspiring, and almost flawlessly literate individual would probably be too smart to take the job! I would also remind you that he has access to the finest military and political advice available. Whilst he is not alone, the final responsibility will rest with him. Who in their right mind would envy him at this moment? The man must be subject to pressures that would hospitalise many of us.

America is quite rightly, uniting behind it's president in this crisis and the best advice I can offer you is to find a different hobby horse to ride for a while. All that's needed is a little common sense to avoid the resentment which will surely boil over into anger from people who have every right to feel threatened and vunerable.

 

Cedric, you see that when you don't let your anti-lecar feelings take over, think a bit and try to give a reasonable answer, you manage to say something that makes sense and that I actually agree with.

Anyway I think I've made my opinions on W clear enough in my previous post.



2x6, geez, you obviously haven't switched off your anti-lecar function... did you read my post? It seems like as soon as you (and some others) see one of my posts, you immediately answer to it with a blind rage, without acknowledging the fact that my comments are actually quite moderate (hondagal : see, I'm sticking to the topic of the thread, at least to its name ), and even making suppositions about my oh-so-predictable opinions.

How can you ever suppose that I'm not shocked at the violent and dangerous diatribes vomited by Al-Qaida's "officials"? Do you think that I'm not scared by the reports on huge anti-American protests erupting in some countries?

I am sad, I am terrified by the perspective of a world splitting in two, but I also try to get proper information. For the past 10 years, I did not have TV. I still avoid letting this mediocre medium be my principal source of information, because I believe in reflection and analysis, 2 things that tend to get evicted when the stream of striking images takes over. I suggest you read the papers a bit, to realize that this isn't a war against the Muslim world. Many Muslims in many countries, however great their resentment towards America, still condemn those terrorist attacks, and try to make their message of peace heard - but of course a burning statue of Bush is more telegenic than an appeasing speech, so...

And if you think you know what the answer to this global problem is, congratulations! You've achieved an understanding of the world that I can only dream of.

Last thing : I'm also afraid that in this time of crisis, extremist nonsense, that would get heavily criticized in normal times, receives approval because of the - fully understandable - anger and fear of the general public.

pfff... I'm tired of this post, it takes me so long to formulate answers in English and I just hope I've made myself clear enough.

remember the key word : moderation