2009 engine issues, talk to me...
09-16-2017, 10:34 AM
#11
Hi Nick,
Thanks for your reply. Having talked to a lot of people with more insight than I into engine thrust washers, I have a plan for moving forward. Basically, I'll measure the end-float every 400-500 miles. If it stays static then happy days, if it increases then I'll stop using the car pending a visit to Tom at TGM. He is aware of the problem and suggests he can replace the thrust washers with the engine in the car. It's not easy, it means dropping the lower block and supporting the crank with two pieces of soft wood as you spin the new thrust washers in, pushing the old ones out in the process, but apparently he's done it before. Tom comes with good press from every S2000 owner he has done work for. If he says he can do it, he probably can. But if not, then engine out to do the job - still better than the crank eating the main bearing.
Thanks for your reply. Having talked to a lot of people with more insight than I into engine thrust washers, I have a plan for moving forward. Basically, I'll measure the end-float every 400-500 miles. If it stays static then happy days, if it increases then I'll stop using the car pending a visit to Tom at TGM. He is aware of the problem and suggests he can replace the thrust washers with the engine in the car. It's not easy, it means dropping the lower block and supporting the crank with two pieces of soft wood as you spin the new thrust washers in, pushing the old ones out in the process, but apparently he's done it before. Tom comes with good press from every S2000 owner he has done work for. If he says he can do it, he probably can. But if not, then engine out to do the job - still better than the crank eating the main bearing.
I have no knowledge of the maximum misalignment on small and big ends (or on piston thrust angles) before they start to cause excessive wear on the F20C, but that's another loading to consider.
But it's mostly damage to the main and the crank you want to avoid.
09-17-2017, 10:34 AM
#12
Does any one,actually know if the thrust issue was as a result of the bearings being under size or the housing over size ?
Obviously under size bearings is,no big problem just order new OEM and get them fitted as described , wouldn't like to do that myself dropping the lower bear cap/housing keeping the crank and shells. In place would not be fun . Having a F20C in bits at the moment this needs to be done carefully and very cleanly , the crank journal clearances are extremely small as are the big end journals. The crank assembly we are messing with with new OEM shells has measured clearances dry of about 0.001" which is very small ,but wet it, it spins freely ! . So needs extreme care in assembly. Can't remember but when we checked thrust with both old and new bearings
Did Honda replace the engines with problems or fit new thrust bearings ? If they replaced I wonder if it was a,problem with the housings and not so easy to fix. Would need special size bearings at the least .
As Nick said , get it done now don't wait !
Obviously under size bearings is,no big problem just order new OEM and get them fitted as described , wouldn't like to do that myself dropping the lower bear cap/housing keeping the crank and shells. In place would not be fun . Having a F20C in bits at the moment this needs to be done carefully and very cleanly , the crank journal clearances are extremely small as are the big end journals. The crank assembly we are messing with with new OEM shells has measured clearances dry of about 0.001" which is very small ,but wet it, it spins freely ! . So needs extreme care in assembly. Can't remember but when we checked thrust with both old and new bearings
Did Honda replace the engines with problems or fit new thrust bearings ? If they replaced I wonder if it was a,problem with the housings and not so easy to fix. Would need special size bearings at the least .
As Nick said , get it done now don't wait !
09-17-2017, 12:32 PM
#13
Reading lot's of threads in the UTH section, the yanks seem to think that on some later engines it was the thrust washers put in the wrong way round !
I worked at a Honda dealer from 05 to 2014, during this time I think we only ever fitted a new block to an S2000 maybe 2 or 3 times, (not always warranty) if warranty it had to be a failure of a part for the warranty to be valid, if not warranty then the average owner only became aware of the issue when their engine started making noises.
I worked at a Honda dealer from 05 to 2014, during this time I think we only ever fitted a new block to an S2000 maybe 2 or 3 times, (not always warranty) if warranty it had to be a failure of a part for the warranty to be valid, if not warranty then the average owner only became aware of the issue when their engine started making noises.
09-17-2017, 01:06 PM
#14
Putting them in base around apex would sure cause premature wear , I thought they were pretty obvious which they they go , with the lubrication slots and bearing surface . Sure the surface on the crank would wear to in that case badly and make repair of the face and much tinker bearings being required.
09-17-2017, 11:58 PM
#15
That's (as I understand it) exactly what's happening and why they should be changed yesterday.
There have been a few photos of them in very distressed states.
HTH you get them in there in situ puzzles me, too.
There have been a few photos of them in very distressed states.
HTH you get them in there in situ puzzles me, too.
09-18-2017, 02:43 AM
#16
Does any one,actually know if the thrust issue was as a result of the bearings being under size or the housing over size ?
Obviously under size bearings is,no big problem just order new OEM and get them fitted as described , wouldn't like to do that myself dropping the lower bear cap/housing keeping the crank and shells. In place would not be fun . Having a F20C in bits at the moment this needs to be done carefully and very cleanly , the crank journal clearances are extremely small as are the big end journals. The crank assembly we are messing with with new OEM shells has measured clearances dry of about 0.001" which is very small ,but wet it, it spins freely ! . So needs extreme care in assembly. Can't remember but when we checked thrust with both old and new bearings
Did Honda replace the engines with problems or fit new thrust bearings ? If they replaced I wonder if it was a,problem with the housings and not so easy to fix. Would need special size bearings at the least .
As Nick said , get it done now don't wait !
Obviously under size bearings is,no big problem just order new OEM and get them fitted as described , wouldn't like to do that myself dropping the lower bear cap/housing keeping the crank and shells. In place would not be fun . Having a F20C in bits at the moment this needs to be done carefully and very cleanly , the crank journal clearances are extremely small as are the big end journals. The crank assembly we are messing with with new OEM shells has measured clearances dry of about 0.001" which is very small ,but wet it, it spins freely ! . So needs extreme care in assembly. Can't remember but when we checked thrust with both old and new bearings
Did Honda replace the engines with problems or fit new thrust bearings ? If they replaced I wonder if it was a,problem with the housings and not so easy to fix. Would need special size bearings at the least .
As Nick said , get it done now don't wait !
Hi Chippo,
I've just sent you a PM.
Kind regards, VB
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