Wah

My Feb 08 car has done 26k now and the engine is fine, especially after the recent valve clearance adjustment at the 27k service. But it has had a new gearbox & clutch under warranty....

fluffyninja

Agreed they won't recall for this but even if it was a mainstream model can't see them recall. Only comparable problem I can think of in the industry that's been recalled was the recent Lexus valve spring and that was off the back of the accelerator pedal recall issues where they'd been critisised for the slow action. We were all scratching our heads as to why they were recalling on that one (so were VOSA apparently who administrate recalls with the OEMs)

They will be looking into it since their service parts supply is under threat. If they have to retool to restock it's serious money.

I do think it'll be taking them a long time to get onto the problem though. The engine is obsolete and people will be treating it as such. The local distributor network won't have the skill level to accurately get to root cause. If they're lucky they'll have enough skill to work out what there the noise is coming from and from the sounds of things they'll be struggling at that.

If it was one of my engines I'll admit it'd probably take me a bit to get onto this one. The distributor may not flag it until the second or third occurence. With it being an obsolete engine it'd probably take me three flags to really start to take an interest. Once I decide to take an interest in it the steps I'll have to take to get it resolved are:
- Go & See the issue and understand the problem it's causing in the field = if they're switched on less than a week, but unlikely in this case due to obsolecence
- Get the engine returned to the plant for investigation (assuming it has to go to Japan expect that to take a month or two) = approx 1~2 months
- In the meantime I'd be looking at as much claim data as possible looking for patterns (specific to country, failure mileage) & Change points within the factory/suppliers = not on critical path of investigation, you'll be doing whilst waiting for engine to arrive
- When the engine arrives carry out technical investigation on it (focus points what in our process should have found the symptom if possible and then what actual cause is) = for a single engine probably less than a month to cover all aspects but you may need several engines to gather enough data. How long is a piece of string really
- Once that's identified fix the problem (in this case maybe not applicable but if it's a common process for another engine may well be needed) = again, how long is a piece of string although you should have it contained within a day or two agauin if you're switched on
- Once it's fixed you then need to feedback into the service network (make sure they know how to identify problem, vehicles affected, how to repair) = if it's a bit of priority on it think about 2 months (it'll have to be in suitably sanitised language for general release and translated into every language required)
- Monitor the problem to check what you're doing has resolved it and any assumptions in claim rate/run out time for the problem are accurate = ongoing after the fix

On a problm like this can't see them having a handle on it in less than 6 months and probably more like a year due to the frequency of failure on this

sound_wave

Worton - I imagine yours may well be the catalytic converter starting to break up ever so slightly. Mine makes the same noise from about 3 - 3.5K revs, but only when you tease it through the revs, and only through certain gears.

It's done it for the last 12 months. I should really look to replace the cat!

Longpig

Fluffyninja - It would be nice to think that Honda would also be so methodical an thorough about this but I firmly believe that the accountants at Honda are in control.

I am on my third engine in 7200 miles. Picked up tha last one less than 4 weeks ago. I suspect that this one also has the 2-3k rattle as well but I am running it in for 700 miles first before going back yet again to the dealership. When I collected it there were two other late model Ss in the workshop having new engines fitted.

My view is that HUK know what the fault is - they have been very quick to diagnose and suggest engine replacements (with only a poor recording of the noise to go on) - They dont ask for the replaced engines to be sent to them for assessment. These have been accumulating in boxes at the back of the franchise I bought mine from. To be scrapped I am told.

Franchises may be happy with this? Must make £500 - 1k in labour charges each time they replace an engine under warranty?

Honda must believe they have enough engines in stock to weather the storm until warranties are up. I may use up quite a few at this rate!

GREGSTERWIZ

can someone please describe the "rattle"

is it more a knocking sound ?

is it more noticeable at constant revs or with a slight blip on the throttle ?

my 09 does have some noise at these revs but so did my 04

the S2000 has always been a very mechanical sounding car. Clutches and gearboxes are noisy so it is quite difficult to diagnose exactly what noise belongs to each component

Longpig

Gregsterwiz - The Longpig guide to late model rattle generation:

1. 2nd or 3rd gear
2. 2.5k revs
3. Passenger window down
4. Ideally drive alongside a wall or hedge to reflect the sound
5. Ease off the throttle - so the engine is not under load - not accelerating or declerating but just 'cruising'. (Difficult I know).

Once you have identified the knocking once its easy to replicate without moving. I am sure it happens at higher speed and higher gears but the wind noise will drown it out - unless its REALLY bad.

That's MY noise anyway. I am sure some will think the issue cant be that bad if you need to be so precise about recreating it. But it does develop into a llouder sound and once jacked up it is much clearer from under the car (Dealer tells me).

Frankly it would make my day if everyone has the same noise and I can rest easy that mine has been just a figbox of my menagery.

p800bry

You should add your details to the engine failure thread

GREGSTERWIZ

excellent, thankyou

i'll give that a try and report back within the next few days

mine has a noise at around 2-3k revs, most noticeable when stationary, sounds like a chain rattling a bit, but I think they all do that, at least my previous S did

you say you're on your third engine

if your current engine isn't a good one, I'd be looking to reject that car, even if it is a year old

Armand

Just because it hasn't been suggested.....

TCT noise

Just fitted a fixed TCT from Billman250 and noise has been cured, dunno if its the same with you guys though...

fluffyninja

It's actually the cheaper way of doing things to get a problem cured very quickly (although normally only if the engine is in production). Just ignoring the problem is bad for cost, company reputation and future sales so they'll want to be on a big problem as soon as possible.

I know of a few very good reasons for the engines still to be laying around.
- No interest in the problem (as you state)
- The problem is big enough they already have a large enough sample to work on
- The dealer is crap at getting them into the return parts route.

Could you update the failed engine thread please, I'm wanting to start gathering data on failures and see if I can narrow the problem down a bit. I have a pet theory that possibly the engine had a manufacturing fault first time around and the subsequent failures have been dealer related. Pure speculation on my part at the moment and I need to see data to disprove or not.

If I were you I'd keep your engine issues going till around the Christmas period because you're absolutely right. They'll be absolutely loving you with the level of warranty work they'll be doing. I'd double to quadruple the figures you're guessing at for how much they're making as an estimate. Might get a rather nice pressie out of them (although a working car would probably be nice too!)