Better tire?
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Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Toronto
Well I say that because what if the car was aligned with him not in the car. If he gets in the car, and drives a lot of highway, it would lower the driver side and give more camber wear like that, no? Toe is a problem here too.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
If driver weighs 240 lb., about 160 of that is going on the rear wheels. Stock wheel rate is ~2*150 = 300 lb/in. So about 1/2" deflection? Not 100% on the figures here... Anyway, on an AP1 that would give some additional rear toe in, but not so much on the AP2. It will give some additional camber, but camber doesn't cause accelerated wear on this scale. Even 2degrees camber should only cost ~10% in terms of tire life in my experience (that's what I run). Excessive toe, on the other hand, can easily cut tire life in half. Which is what we have here.
. Driver weight, the best power to weight ratio mod for any s2000
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Walnut/Diamond Bar, SoCal
hahah no im not even close to 200. I had my alignment done a little over a year, when i got those tires. Do you guys think alignment can eat up my tires that quickly?
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
Alignment can move around over time. I had that happen to me. The rear toe gradually toed in a TON unbeknownst to me (should have been obvious as the car's handling went to shit, but it did so gradually). When I only got ~3000 miles on one set of rear tires (Dunlop Sport Maxx TT) I knew something was up. Lo and behold the rear toe had moved to just over 1 degree total. I'm going to get at least SEVEN TIMES the life out of the RS-3s that are on the back of the car now, running 0.2degrees total rear toe.
When I first got the car, I had rear toe set to the max end of the spec range (0.64degrees total) in a misguided attempt to address what I suspected would be an overly oversteery car, before I took it to the track. The rear tire wear rate was so horrendous (2 events, 4 track days and the rears were DONE) I had it dialled back down to the minimum end of the range, 0.3degrees total or 0.15 per side, but the shop instead gave me 0.15degrees *total*. I was really worried that the handling, which had been a little weird and nonlinear compared to my 240Z's on-track demeanor, would become truly evil. But it became more predictable and *less* twitchy. And rear tire life at the track on track tires and on the street on street tires went up by ~2.5x.
Rear toe KILLS tires, and SUCKS for handling, too! And fuel economy. And acceleration/speed.
Camber, on the other hand, is no big deal for tire life. I run 2 degrees in back and I get remarkably even wear and long tire life.
Check your alignment, I bet the rear toe is over 0.5 degrees total.
Do NOT get a generic "alignment". That only ensures that the alignment figures are somewhere within a *very* broad range. As I experienced, you can cut tire life by more than half while being within spec on rear toe.
Judging from your first post, you just want a good basic DD alignment, nothing for track/autoX work, right?
I would go with something like this:
front toe: zero
front camber: -0.5 to -1 degree
rear toe: 0.2 to 0.3 degrees total (or just tell them 1/8" total if they do it in inches)
rear camber: -1 to -1.5 degrees
Personally, I run zero front toe, 0.2 rear toe, and maximum camber they can get on the stock suspension (-1.3 front and -2 rear in my case).
When I first got the car, I had rear toe set to the max end of the spec range (0.64degrees total) in a misguided attempt to address what I suspected would be an overly oversteery car, before I took it to the track. The rear tire wear rate was so horrendous (2 events, 4 track days and the rears were DONE) I had it dialled back down to the minimum end of the range, 0.3degrees total or 0.15 per side, but the shop instead gave me 0.15degrees *total*. I was really worried that the handling, which had been a little weird and nonlinear compared to my 240Z's on-track demeanor, would become truly evil. But it became more predictable and *less* twitchy. And rear tire life at the track on track tires and on the street on street tires went up by ~2.5x.
Rear toe KILLS tires, and SUCKS for handling, too! And fuel economy. And acceleration/speed.
Camber, on the other hand, is no big deal for tire life. I run 2 degrees in back and I get remarkably even wear and long tire life.
Check your alignment, I bet the rear toe is over 0.5 degrees total.
Do NOT get a generic "alignment". That only ensures that the alignment figures are somewhere within a *very* broad range. As I experienced, you can cut tire life by more than half while being within spec on rear toe.
Judging from your first post, you just want a good basic DD alignment, nothing for track/autoX work, right?
I would go with something like this:
front toe: zero
front camber: -0.5 to -1 degree
rear toe: 0.2 to 0.3 degrees total (or just tell them 1/8" total if they do it in inches)
rear camber: -1 to -1.5 degrees
Personally, I run zero front toe, 0.2 rear toe, and maximum camber they can get on the stock suspension (-1.3 front and -2 rear in my case).
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
I was the same way until I started dating my current gf
I guess thats a good thing
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
Alignment can move around over time. I had that happen to me. The rear toe gradually toed in a TON unbeknownst to me (should have been obvious as the car's handling went to shit, but it did so gradually). When I only got ~3000 miles on one set of rear tires (Dunlop Sport Maxx TT) I knew something was up. Lo and behold the rear toe had moved to just over 1 degree total. I'm going to get at least SEVEN TIMES the life out of the RS-3s that are on the back of the car now, running 0.2degrees total rear toe.
When I first got the car, I had rear toe set to the max end of the spec range (0.64degrees total) in a misguided attempt to address what I suspected would be an overly oversteery car, before I took it to the track. The rear tire wear rate was so horrendous (2 events, 4 track days and the rears were DONE) I had it dialled back down to the minimum end of the range, 0.3degrees total or 0.15 per side, but the shop instead gave me 0.15degrees *total*. I was really worried that the handling, which had been a little weird and nonlinear compared to my 240Z's on-track demeanor, would become truly evil. But it became more predictable and *less* twitchy. And rear tire life at the track on track tires and on the street on street tires went up by ~2.5x.
Rear toe KILLS tires, and SUCKS for handling, too! And fuel economy. And acceleration/speed.
Camber, on the other hand, is no big deal for tire life. I run 2 degrees in back and I get remarkably even wear and long tire life.
Check your alignment, I bet the rear toe is over 0.5 degrees total.
Do NOT get a generic "alignment". That only ensures that the alignment figures are somewhere within a *very* broad range. As I experienced, you can cut tire life by more than half while being within spec on rear toe.
Judging from your first post, you just want a good basic DD alignment, nothing for track/autoX work, right?
I would go with something like this:
front toe: zero
front camber: -0.5 to -1 degree
rear toe: 0.2 to 0.3 degrees total (or just tell them 1/8" total if they do it in inches)
rear camber: -1 to -1.5 degrees
Personally, I run zero front toe, 0.2 rear toe, and maximum camber they can get on the stock suspension (-1.3 front and -2 rear in my case).
When I first got the car, I had rear toe set to the max end of the spec range (0.64degrees total) in a misguided attempt to address what I suspected would be an overly oversteery car, before I took it to the track. The rear tire wear rate was so horrendous (2 events, 4 track days and the rears were DONE) I had it dialled back down to the minimum end of the range, 0.3degrees total or 0.15 per side, but the shop instead gave me 0.15degrees *total*. I was really worried that the handling, which had been a little weird and nonlinear compared to my 240Z's on-track demeanor, would become truly evil. But it became more predictable and *less* twitchy. And rear tire life at the track on track tires and on the street on street tires went up by ~2.5x.
Rear toe KILLS tires, and SUCKS for handling, too! And fuel economy. And acceleration/speed.
Camber, on the other hand, is no big deal for tire life. I run 2 degrees in back and I get remarkably even wear and long tire life.
Check your alignment, I bet the rear toe is over 0.5 degrees total.
Do NOT get a generic "alignment". That only ensures that the alignment figures are somewhere within a *very* broad range. As I experienced, you can cut tire life by more than half while being within spec on rear toe.
Judging from your first post, you just want a good basic DD alignment, nothing for track/autoX work, right?
I would go with something like this:
front toe: zero
front camber: -0.5 to -1 degree
rear toe: 0.2 to 0.3 degrees total (or just tell them 1/8" total if they do it in inches)
rear camber: -1 to -1.5 degrees
Personally, I run zero front toe, 0.2 rear toe, and maximum camber they can get on the stock suspension (-1.3 front and -2 rear in my case).
I heard that s2000 rear tires step toe out when traveling at highway speeds, a little toe in in the rear is necessary to help the wheels travel at a true "zero toe." Is this true?
Alignment specs with me in the car:
Front Camber: -2.5/-2.4
Caster: 5.3/5.6
Toe: 0
Rear camber: -2.0/-2.0 (Prob all f@#ked now because I lowered the rear ride height- even though I was careful to lower left and right the same amount)
Rear toe: 0.24 total
Thrust angle: 0.01
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,697
Likes: 0
From: Walnut/Diamond Bar, SoCal
Alignment can move around over time. I had that happen to me. The rear toe gradually toed in a TON unbeknownst to me (should have been obvious as the car's handling went to shit, but it did so gradually). When I only got ~3000 miles on one set of rear tires (Dunlop Sport Maxx TT) I knew something was up. Lo and behold the rear toe had moved to just over 1 degree total. I'm going to get at least SEVEN TIMES the life out of the RS-3s that are on the back of the car now, running 0.2degrees total rear toe.
When I first got the car, I had rear toe set to the max end of the spec range (0.64degrees total) in a misguided attempt to address what I suspected would be an overly oversteery car, before I took it to the track. The rear tire wear rate was so horrendous (2 events, 4 track days and the rears were DONE) I had it dialled back down to the minimum end of the range, 0.3degrees total or 0.15 per side, but the shop instead gave me 0.15degrees *total*. I was really worried that the handling, which had been a little weird and nonlinear compared to my 240Z's on-track demeanor, would become truly evil. But it became more predictable and *less* twitchy. And rear tire life at the track on track tires and on the street on street tires went up by ~2.5x.
Rear toe KILLS tires, and SUCKS for handling, too! And fuel economy. And acceleration/speed.
Camber, on the other hand, is no big deal for tire life. I run 2 degrees in back and I get remarkably even wear and long tire life.
Check your alignment, I bet the rear toe is over 0.5 degrees total.
Do NOT get a generic "alignment". That only ensures that the alignment figures are somewhere within a *very* broad range. As I experienced, you can cut tire life by more than half while being within spec on rear toe.
Judging from your first post, you just want a good basic DD alignment, nothing for track/autoX work, right?
I would go with something like this:
front toe: zero
front camber: -0.5 to -1 degree
rear toe: 0.2 to 0.3 degrees total (or just tell them 1/8" total if they do it in inches)
rear camber: -1 to -1.5 degrees
Personally, I run zero front toe, 0.2 rear toe, and maximum camber they can get on the stock suspension (-1.3 front and -2 rear in my case).
When I first got the car, I had rear toe set to the max end of the spec range (0.64degrees total) in a misguided attempt to address what I suspected would be an overly oversteery car, before I took it to the track. The rear tire wear rate was so horrendous (2 events, 4 track days and the rears were DONE) I had it dialled back down to the minimum end of the range, 0.3degrees total or 0.15 per side, but the shop instead gave me 0.15degrees *total*. I was really worried that the handling, which had been a little weird and nonlinear compared to my 240Z's on-track demeanor, would become truly evil. But it became more predictable and *less* twitchy. And rear tire life at the track on track tires and on the street on street tires went up by ~2.5x.
Rear toe KILLS tires, and SUCKS for handling, too! And fuel economy. And acceleration/speed.
Camber, on the other hand, is no big deal for tire life. I run 2 degrees in back and I get remarkably even wear and long tire life.
Check your alignment, I bet the rear toe is over 0.5 degrees total.
Do NOT get a generic "alignment". That only ensures that the alignment figures are somewhere within a *very* broad range. As I experienced, you can cut tire life by more than half while being within spec on rear toe.
Judging from your first post, you just want a good basic DD alignment, nothing for track/autoX work, right?
I would go with something like this:
front toe: zero
front camber: -0.5 to -1 degree
rear toe: 0.2 to 0.3 degrees total (or just tell them 1/8" total if they do it in inches)
rear camber: -1 to -1.5 degrees
Personally, I run zero front toe, 0.2 rear toe, and maximum camber they can get on the stock suspension (-1.3 front and -2 rear in my case).