Stock seats and no harness, will I still benefit from 200 tread tires?
10-06-2019, 02:59 PM
#21
Thread Starter
10-06-2019, 03:06 PM
#22
Unless your fenders are absolutely PERFECT I wouldn't worry about it.
I drive a lot of rural roads and my wheels have 'aggressive' sizing, yeah sure I've got a little paint chipping behind my front tires, but nothing you likely couldn't have prevented with some clear bra or something like that.
I drive a lot of rural roads and my wheels have 'aggressive' sizing, yeah sure I've got a little paint chipping behind my front tires, but nothing you likely couldn't have prevented with some clear bra or something like that.
10-07-2019, 09:41 AM
#23
Thread Starter
Unless your fenders are absolutely PERFECT I wouldn't worry about it.
I drive a lot of rural roads and my wheels have 'aggressive' sizing, yeah sure I've got a little paint chipping behind my front tires, but nothing you likely couldn't have prevented with some clear bra or something like that.
I drive a lot of rural roads and my wheels have 'aggressive' sizing, yeah sure I've got a little paint chipping behind my front tires, but nothing you likely couldn't have prevented with some clear bra or something like that.
Yeah... My fenders are in really good condition. That's why I'm sort of obsessing over tire choices (and unfortunately, SF roads are just littered with rocks and debris with our constant city-wide construction)
10-07-2019, 12:58 PM
#24
Do you have autox or track experience? Most people say to learn on street tires first because the limits are lower and things happen slower. The analogy is sliding on ice/snow vs. doing it in the dry. It's much easier to handle a car sliding on snow/ice and requires less reflexes due to the lack of grip. RE71's and other 200tw tires are so grippy that the car is loaded up with a ton of force before beginning to slide. Once sliding, they aren't much more grippy than anything else. Therefore, the amount of force that was loaded up requires quick reflexes to counter. You will be faster on RE71's initially but it may hamper your learning. I was told all of this but did not really understand when I started autocrossing and went to RE71R's right away. I'm a competitive person and wanted to see where I really stacked up without any excuses. After having a few years of experience and watching other drivers, I understand why the recommendation is to start off on more normal street tires. After 4 years, I bet I'd still have valuable learning on less grippy tires.
I'm going to guess that it's probably even more hampering to start track driving, without experience, on competition tires. I've done one track day, and aside from the < 70mph turns, I was not truly pushing the limits of the car. I'm comfortable up to those speeds because of my autocross experience. There was a sweeper that could probably be done at 100+ that I stayed low 90s through because I wasn't willing to risk it. Without the autocross experience, I wouldn't have been comfortable to really push it anywhere. I think from a logical perspective, something like the RS4 or even a more conservative, normal street tire in the 300-400 TW range makes the most sense. RE71's are awesome for what they are and are a lot of fun. They are essentially a race tire compound in a semi-street tire mold.
10-07-2019, 06:05 PM
#25
Thread Starter
RE71R's will pick up a bunch of debris and rocks. The fronts, especially, will pepper your lower doors and fenders with chips. I did run 225 fronts on my AP1 wheels, and 245 fronts on AP2 wheels. I put some guards on my fenders to deflect some of it, but it still chips a bit. I did the DIY, home depot version. As mentioned, the tires wear fast. It sounds like you have a different daily option at least. I've pretty much run exclusively RE71's on my AP1 and now AP2. They are incredibly fun but have their downsides. Be careful when you switch back to a more normal tire. You have to adjust your driving very significantly.
Do you have autox or track experience? Most people say to learn on street tires first because the limits are lower and things happen slower. The analogy is sliding on ice/snow vs. doing it in the dry. It's much easier to handle a car sliding on snow/ice and requires less reflexes due to the lack of grip. RE71's and other 200tw tires are so grippy that the car is loaded up with a ton of force before beginning to slide. Once sliding, they aren't much more grippy than anything else. Therefore, the amount of force that was loaded up requires quick reflexes to counter. You will be faster on RE71's initially but it may hamper your learning. I was told all of this but did not really understand when I started autocrossing and went to RE71R's right away. I'm a competitive person and wanted to see where I really stacked up without any excuses. After having a few years of experience and watching other drivers, I understand why the recommendation is to start off on more normal street tires. After 4 years, I bet I'd still have valuable learning on less grippy tires.
I'm going to guess that it's probably even more hampering to start track driving, without experience, on competition tires. I've done one track day, and aside from the < 70mph turns, I was not truly pushing the limits of the car. I'm comfortable up to those speeds because of my autocross experience. There was a sweeper that could probably be done at 100+ that I stayed low 90s through because I wasn't willing to risk it. Without the autocross experience, I wouldn't have been comfortable to really push it anywhere. I think from a logical perspective, something like the RS4 or even a more conservative, normal street tire in the 300-400 TW range makes the most sense. RE71's are awesome for what they are and are a lot of fun. They are essentially a race tire compound in a semi-street tire mold.
Do you have autox or track experience? Most people say to learn on street tires first because the limits are lower and things happen slower. The analogy is sliding on ice/snow vs. doing it in the dry. It's much easier to handle a car sliding on snow/ice and requires less reflexes due to the lack of grip. RE71's and other 200tw tires are so grippy that the car is loaded up with a ton of force before beginning to slide. Once sliding, they aren't much more grippy than anything else. Therefore, the amount of force that was loaded up requires quick reflexes to counter. You will be faster on RE71's initially but it may hamper your learning. I was told all of this but did not really understand when I started autocrossing and went to RE71R's right away. I'm a competitive person and wanted to see where I really stacked up without any excuses. After having a few years of experience and watching other drivers, I understand why the recommendation is to start off on more normal street tires. After 4 years, I bet I'd still have valuable learning on less grippy tires.
I'm going to guess that it's probably even more hampering to start track driving, without experience, on competition tires. I've done one track day, and aside from the < 70mph turns, I was not truly pushing the limits of the car. I'm comfortable up to those speeds because of my autocross experience. There was a sweeper that could probably be done at 100+ that I stayed low 90s through because I wasn't willing to risk it. Without the autocross experience, I wouldn't have been comfortable to really push it anywhere. I think from a logical perspective, something like the RS4 or even a more conservative, normal street tire in the 300-400 TW range makes the most sense. RE71's are awesome for what they are and are a lot of fun. They are essentially a race tire compound in a semi-street tire mold.
I agree with you and that's why I wanted to know if a 200 treadwear tire makes sense to a complete track beginner (0 track days here, but I want to change that soon). Lack of space actually prohibits me from running dedicated sets on the S2000. So for now, I am looking for one set of tires.
I also agree with the opinion that 200 treadwear tires will generate more grip than my skills will allow. I've heard from several people that it's better for a beginner to go with less grip, so I'd understand what are the limits of the car as currently configured. If with each track day, I come closer and closer to a reachable limit, I think that'll help my driving skills greatly. I was concerned that with 200 treadwear tires equipped, the car's limits will be sky high and unreachable. But like you said, if by chance I reach those high limits, I wouldn't have the skills to cope with it.
I've had great experience with the Bridgestone S-04 Pole Position and Hankook Ventus EVO2 V12 as daily street tires, advantage Hankook on durability and advantage S-04 for a little more grip. Which one of the two would you choose?
(I will not consider Sumitomo HTR ZIII because I've read from several reviews that those are not that great in the rain)
10-07-2019, 10:39 PM
#26
I'd say go with a 200 TW tire, I do not believe in the theory of learning on normal street tires/ brake pads in HDPEs from a safety standpoint. From my experience, people who run less track focused equipment have their track days run short, and when you experience something like brake fade or flatspotting your tyres, you lose so much confidence as a driver it will take a long while to rebuild it back.
If you really want to learn your cars behavior and handling characteristics, attend a wet trackday/autocross and you'll experience all the breakaway behaviors magnified which I believe is key to drive an FR car fast.
RE71R is rated 200TW but grip and wear levels are more on par with early model R comps, so I'd recommend running Hankook RS4s for your first track day.
If you really want to learn your cars behavior and handling characteristics, attend a wet trackday/autocross and you'll experience all the breakaway behaviors magnified which I believe is key to drive an FR car fast.
RE71R is rated 200TW but grip and wear levels are more on par with early model R comps, so I'd recommend running Hankook RS4s for your first track day.
10-07-2019, 10:52 PM
#27
Thread Starter
I'd say go with a 200 TW tire, I do not believe in the theory of learning on normal street tires/ brake pads in HDPEs from a safety standpoint. From my experience, people who run less track focused equipment have their track days run short, and when you experience something like brake fade or flatspotting your tyres, you lose so much confidence as a driver it will take a long while to rebuild it back.
If you really want to learn your cars behavior and handling characteristics, attend a wet trackday/autocross and you'll experience all the breakaway behaviors magnified which I believe is key to drive an FR car fast.
RE71R is rated 200TW but grip and wear levels are more on par with early model R comps, so I'd recommend running Hankook RS4s for your first track day.
If you really want to learn your cars behavior and handling characteristics, attend a wet trackday/autocross and you'll experience all the breakaway behaviors magnified which I believe is key to drive an FR car fast.
RE71R is rated 200TW but grip and wear levels are more on par with early model R comps, so I'd recommend running Hankook RS4s for your first track day.
10-08-2019, 07:22 AM
#29
Thread Starter
If I can find the space to accommodate another set of wheels and tires in storage, then I will get an extra set of grippier 200 treadwear tire as a dedicated track tire.
If I cannot find the space for another set of wheels and tires, then unfortunately, something along Bridgestone S-04 Pole Position will have to suffice.
Thanks everyone for your insights! Greatly appreciate it man.
Last edited by Say Chi Sin Lo; 10-08-2019 at 10:15 AM.
10-10-2019, 04:53 AM
#30
You can daily on 200tw tires. Honestly if you're tracking the car, I say go with tires that are 100% up to it. I'd go with Hankook RS4 though. RE71Rs are faster for sure, but *very* short-lived...