MTF
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From: Gilbert, Arizona
Originally Posted by JsUmSiTtIhN,Oct 10 2008, 11:15 PM
1st off, sorry for the delay, life's been pretty hectic lately.
2nd ATF was not in your transmission
3rd I am not a certified mechanic, but I've been turning wrenches on honda's & honda's only for many years. I do not trust shops or dealers & feel most are there just to rip you off. I do a lot of side business working on honda's during the weekends and only use honda oem parts (minus oil filters or performance parts, but we'll save that portion for later). I always advise people to do work themselves so they know a job is done right, but when they don't have the time or knowledge to tackle the job, I'm there to assist & treat every car I work on as if it was my own.
4th, yes honda/helms manuals state 10w30 may be used as a temporary replacement for trans fluid in emergency situations, personally I would never recommend this, it's called a cell phone & a tow truck.
Honda's new MTF has been out for over a year now, which tells me that you guys don't change your trans fluid often enough for optimal performance, but for longevity. I change trans fluid every oil change in my turbo integra (1000-1500 miles), & every other oil change in my daily driver civic. For those s2000 owners that care more about performance, change your trans fluid every oil change or at least every other & you will notice a huge improvement. Honda's new fluid is much more clear than the old stuff & yes it does have negatives & positives.
Negative, is yes there is a noticeable amount of noise difference in certain transmissions such as the s2000 & d-series civics, but some cars like the f-series accords & h-series preludes there is little to no noticeable difference. Some customers have complained of a "more notchy feeling" & I would agree that you tend to "feel" the gears more. Personally I think that is a huge plus, because it is much easier to tell when the syncro's are lined up & when things are ready to shift or when they are going to grind or mess up your trans when idiots try to power shift...
Positives, the new fluid last longer, resisting breakdown under higher temperatures for longer periods of time. The new fluid lubricates all honda transmissions more than adequately under any realistic circumstances. Personally I love it, especially on the b-series transmissions it was a noticeable improvement in shifter feel.
I have tried many many many trans fluids & gear oils in the past including gm syncromesh & yes it is a huge difference from honda fluids. This I feel is a bad thing. While GMSM does tend to be quieter & provide soothing grandma feel shifting, i have seen syncro's worn out & more metal shavings in casings using it, maybe it was just the drivers, honestly it is very circumstantial & not a true "judge" of the fluid, but honda knows what they are doing when it comes to fluid, in my opinion there is no need to use anything but honda mtf in your trans. Honda know's what they are doing, why question honda's judgement? Have they not improved the s2000 in each of their revisions? What makes you think they wouldn't do the same when it comes to fluids? Remember type1 coolant before the type-2? guess which is better?
Oh & I never understood why people liked royal purple or redline mtf, I was never impressed with it compared to honda mtf, it's better then used nasty fluid, but comparing fresh fluid to fresh fluid, there is no comparison.
Here's a couple photo's because you guys waited so long & I thought of my idea last week, so I might as well finish it off, & yes I got a little picture happy, sorry 56k.
Honda fluids that I always stock:
The garage:
Legend brakes>S2000 brakes
"The" tire in my book:
Misc transmissions/gear sets laying around:
The mini junkyard of excess crap:
In case anyone thinks about taking things that don't belong to them:
2nd ATF was not in your transmission
3rd I am not a certified mechanic, but I've been turning wrenches on honda's & honda's only for many years. I do not trust shops or dealers & feel most are there just to rip you off. I do a lot of side business working on honda's during the weekends and only use honda oem parts (minus oil filters or performance parts, but we'll save that portion for later). I always advise people to do work themselves so they know a job is done right, but when they don't have the time or knowledge to tackle the job, I'm there to assist & treat every car I work on as if it was my own.
4th, yes honda/helms manuals state 10w30 may be used as a temporary replacement for trans fluid in emergency situations, personally I would never recommend this, it's called a cell phone & a tow truck.
Honda's new MTF has been out for over a year now, which tells me that you guys don't change your trans fluid often enough for optimal performance, but for longevity. I change trans fluid every oil change in my turbo integra (1000-1500 miles), & every other oil change in my daily driver civic. For those s2000 owners that care more about performance, change your trans fluid every oil change or at least every other & you will notice a huge improvement. Honda's new fluid is much more clear than the old stuff & yes it does have negatives & positives.
Negative, is yes there is a noticeable amount of noise difference in certain transmissions such as the s2000 & d-series civics, but some cars like the f-series accords & h-series preludes there is little to no noticeable difference. Some customers have complained of a "more notchy feeling" & I would agree that you tend to "feel" the gears more. Personally I think that is a huge plus, because it is much easier to tell when the syncro's are lined up & when things are ready to shift or when they are going to grind or mess up your trans when idiots try to power shift...
Positives, the new fluid last longer, resisting breakdown under higher temperatures for longer periods of time. The new fluid lubricates all honda transmissions more than adequately under any realistic circumstances. Personally I love it, especially on the b-series transmissions it was a noticeable improvement in shifter feel.
I have tried many many many trans fluids & gear oils in the past including gm syncromesh & yes it is a huge difference from honda fluids. This I feel is a bad thing. While GMSM does tend to be quieter & provide soothing grandma feel shifting, i have seen syncro's worn out & more metal shavings in casings using it, maybe it was just the drivers, honestly it is very circumstantial & not a true "judge" of the fluid, but honda knows what they are doing when it comes to fluid, in my opinion there is no need to use anything but honda mtf in your trans. Honda know's what they are doing, why question honda's judgement? Have they not improved the s2000 in each of their revisions? What makes you think they wouldn't do the same when it comes to fluids? Remember type1 coolant before the type-2? guess which is better?
Oh & I never understood why people liked royal purple or redline mtf, I was never impressed with it compared to honda mtf, it's better then used nasty fluid, but comparing fresh fluid to fresh fluid, there is no comparison.
Here's a couple photo's because you guys waited so long & I thought of my idea last week, so I might as well finish it off, & yes I got a little picture happy, sorry 56k.
Honda fluids that I always stock:
The garage:
Legend brakes>S2000 brakes
"The" tire in my book:
Misc transmissions/gear sets laying around:
The mini junkyard of excess crap:
In case anyone thinks about taking things that don't belong to them:
The fluid drained from my tranny after a clutch replacement was as clear as distilled water and damned-near as thin. It had absolutely NO tint. CRYSTAL CLEAR. If it wasn't ATF, then WTF was it?
The shit in my tranny was nothing ever known to be run in our S2000.
Thank goodness that I changed it out after about a week and 200 miles.
I drained the MTF and put in GM's Friction Modified Synchro-Mesh formula which works fantastic in MY04's.
What I want to know is if there is another formula that might work better with the MY04 tranny which has carbon synchronizors... and IF GMSMFM is BAD in the long-run.
Honda's new MTF "feels" worse than the original formula. Knowing this, is there another formula better than the GMSMFM that performs better in our '04 tranny?
Trust me... none of the oils you displayed... which you did an excellent job of displaying... were the suspects I drained out of my tranny following the clutch work.
Crystal Clear... like water!
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I've always used Honda MTF for the tranny and Mobil 1 75w90 for the diff on all my s2000s.
My 03 saw tons of autocross events and a few track days. I changed the tranny/diff fluids every year, 12,000 miles, or if I noticed the shifts weren't as smooth as they should be. I never had a problem.
On my 05, I've run both the old and new Honda MTF. This car doesn't see any track time, but I've never had a problem or complaint with either Honda MTF.
My personal opinion and experience on tranny fluids and the S2000, is that you can't go wrong using Honda MTF if you follow a good maintenance schedule.
My 03 saw tons of autocross events and a few track days. I changed the tranny/diff fluids every year, 12,000 miles, or if I noticed the shifts weren't as smooth as they should be. I never had a problem.
On my 05, I've run both the old and new Honda MTF. This car doesn't see any track time, but I've never had a problem or complaint with either Honda MTF.
My personal opinion and experience on tranny fluids and the S2000, is that you can't go wrong using Honda MTF if you follow a good maintenance schedule.
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