FIA Decision
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From: Toronto
Originally Posted by WFO Racer,Aug 1 2007, 10:00 PM
Just shut up and race !
I bet McLaren really wish this was the case...Too bad McLaren couldn't "just shut up and race" before they went to the FIA with stolen information.
Why doesn't McLaren hand over ALL the technical, test, design, strategy, etc info over to Ferrari so that Ferrari can scrutinize it for legality???
bet McLaren are not too keen on doing that, eh?McLaren have an advantage by having Ferrari's information, so racing is not true racing anymore....
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Originally Posted by WFO Racer,Aug 1 2007, 10:00 PM
Ferrari is acting all butt hurt because one of their employees got pissed and gave out data supporting their cheating ways. Ever since the big Chin was pushed out, the Italian drama begins.
Just shut up and race !
Just shut up and race !
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_new...es_art_id=32299
It seems McLaren is acting all hurt because one of their employees received stolen classified specs from a competitor and have tried to cover it up. The McLaren drama begins.
Let's just get to the truth and the guilty should be penalized.
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From: Toronto
^ I read that and came away with a couple of things:
1 - McLaren just admitted that they used the illegal docs to support their clarification claims on the flexifloor. The FIA wanted proof...well McLaren just gave it to them!
2 - RD is doing everything he can to deflect the attention from any other use of data to only the area of it being used on the current McLaren cars. Ferrari have already stated that that is not where their concern lies.
3 - RD states the the F2007 was "illegal" for the Australian GP - that is false, the F2007 passed scrutineering and was therefore legal. After the McLaren "clarification" requests the tests the FIA were modified, so Ferrari (and every OTHER team) had to modify their floors to pass scrutineering.
4 - RD is trying to state that Ferrari are trying to ruin the season...ummm, who has stolen info??? <---- that is what is going to ruin this season.
5 - Timelines - If McLaren had told MC to stop communicating with NS, why did they allow him to go to Spain and meet up with him????
6 - RD is trying to separate the docs from the flexifloor "clarification" and states he got that info via tip off via email. Uummm that is STILL confidential information that McLaren should have reported to the FIA! There is no difference.
7 - Applauds NS as a whistleblower - since when does a whistleblower go to a competitor rather than the authorities???
8 - I noticed how he mentioned that the flexifloor was found to be illegal and that the wing separators were found to be legal...he only spoke about 2 of the 3 items Ferrari identified...why no mention of brake balances?
9 - McLaren also names NS as the passer of info - NS has basically no credibility left...
10 - More people at McLaren knew - RD confirms that Taylor and Neale both saw something outlining the flexifloors, but both of them have stated in the past they know nothing about the docs but neither had any idea of what they were looking at...wow not very good engineers....
1 - McLaren just admitted that they used the illegal docs to support their clarification claims on the flexifloor. The FIA wanted proof...well McLaren just gave it to them!
2 - RD is doing everything he can to deflect the attention from any other use of data to only the area of it being used on the current McLaren cars. Ferrari have already stated that that is not where their concern lies.
3 - RD states the the F2007 was "illegal" for the Australian GP - that is false, the F2007 passed scrutineering and was therefore legal. After the McLaren "clarification" requests the tests the FIA were modified, so Ferrari (and every OTHER team) had to modify their floors to pass scrutineering.
4 - RD is trying to state that Ferrari are trying to ruin the season...ummm, who has stolen info??? <---- that is what is going to ruin this season.
5 - Timelines - If McLaren had told MC to stop communicating with NS, why did they allow him to go to Spain and meet up with him????
6 - RD is trying to separate the docs from the flexifloor "clarification" and states he got that info via tip off via email. Uummm that is STILL confidential information that McLaren should have reported to the FIA! There is no difference.
7 - Applauds NS as a whistleblower - since when does a whistleblower go to a competitor rather than the authorities???
8 - I noticed how he mentioned that the flexifloor was found to be illegal and that the wing separators were found to be legal...he only spoke about 2 of the 3 items Ferrari identified...why no mention of brake balances?
9 - McLaren also names NS as the passer of info - NS has basically no credibility left...
10 - More people at McLaren knew - RD confirms that Taylor and Neale both saw something outlining the flexifloors, but both of them have stated in the past they know nothing about the docs but neither had any idea of what they were looking at...wow not very good engineers....
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Ok, we need to lighten this thread up with this bit of breaking news.
RALF REPLACED BY PLANT
Sniff, Wednesday, August 1st, 2007 at 2:38 pm
After months of disappointment punctuated by the odd adequate performance, like swimming through liquid effluent to find a bag of plain crisps, Toyota F1 bosses have finally lost patience with Ralf Schumacher and today announced that he is to be replaced
RALF REPLACED BY PLANT
Sniff, Wednesday, August 1st, 2007 at 2:38 pm
After months of disappointment punctuated by the odd adequate performance, like swimming through liquid effluent to find a bag of plain crisps, Toyota F1 bosses have finally lost patience with Ralf Schumacher and today announced that he is to be replaced
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Well we all know KR sort of always gets to the point with the fewest words, well this one is just perfect.
Up yours RD...
Asked by a reporter in Budapest what he thought of Dennis' comments {about Ferrari winning a race with an illegal car}, Raikkonen - who drove for McLaren between 2002 and last year - said: "We would have been disqualified if the car had been illegal."
www.f1-live.com
www.f1-live.com
Up yours RD...
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Below is Macaluso's full response to Dennis of today:
2 August 2007
Dear Mr Dennis,
Article 151c of the International Sporting Code
I refer to your letter of 1 August 2007.
It is apparent from your letter that there is a distinct difference between McLaren's view of events and that of Ferrari. It therefore seems appropriate for the matter to be reviewed by the International Court of Appeal as decided by the FIA President, Mr Mosley.
It is not my role nor would it be appropriate for me to answer your various points. It will be for the Court of Appeal to do so.
In any event, I would limit myself to stress that McLaren was found in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, but nevertheless escaped any penalty.
As Mr Mosley indicated in his letter of 31 July 2007, it is important for the World Championship that the correct outcome is reached. It is clearly in the interest of the sport that the appropriate precedent for dealing with events such as these is set.
At the hearing of the World Motor Sport Council on 26 July 2007, Ferrari was legally represented but attended the meeting merely as an observer.
It accordingly did not have sufficient opportunity to present to the Council or ask questions of key individuals involved in this matter in order to test their evidence.
A hearing before the International Court of Appeal will allow Ferrari an opportunity to present its evidence and arguments in detail.
Yours sincerely
Luigi Macaluso
The President of ACI-CSAI
Copy:
Mr. Max Mosley (President FIA)
Mr. Jean Todt (CEO Ferrari SpA)
www.autosport.com
2 August 2007
Dear Mr Dennis,
Article 151c of the International Sporting Code
I refer to your letter of 1 August 2007.
It is apparent from your letter that there is a distinct difference between McLaren's view of events and that of Ferrari. It therefore seems appropriate for the matter to be reviewed by the International Court of Appeal as decided by the FIA President, Mr Mosley.
It is not my role nor would it be appropriate for me to answer your various points. It will be for the Court of Appeal to do so.
In any event, I would limit myself to stress that McLaren was found in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, but nevertheless escaped any penalty.
As Mr Mosley indicated in his letter of 31 July 2007, it is important for the World Championship that the correct outcome is reached. It is clearly in the interest of the sport that the appropriate precedent for dealing with events such as these is set.
At the hearing of the World Motor Sport Council on 26 July 2007, Ferrari was legally represented but attended the meeting merely as an observer.
It accordingly did not have sufficient opportunity to present to the Council or ask questions of key individuals involved in this matter in order to test their evidence.
A hearing before the International Court of Appeal will allow Ferrari an opportunity to present its evidence and arguments in detail.
Yours sincerely
Luigi Macaluso
The President of ACI-CSAI
Copy:
Mr. Max Mosley (President FIA)
Mr. Jean Todt (CEO Ferrari SpA)
www.autosport.com
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
I just love this! Yes, in his short and sweet way he makes a very good point.
Aaahahahehe, chickens... What's wrong Ronny, afraid they might let the cat out of the bag and put you in a deeper hole than you are already in?
Time for Kimi Raikkonen to make his move
By Kevin Garside
Last Updated: 1:52am BST 03/08/2007
Full marks to Ferrari for letting Kimi Raikkonen speak for himself in the spy row dragging Formula One deeper into the dirt. The Finn can hardly be described as verbose, but at least he took his place in the official Hungarian Grand Prix press conference, which is exactly where Fernando Alonso should have been before being inexcusably pulled by his bosses.
In his customised, minimalist English, Raikkonen dismissed accusations of Ferrari running an illegal car in Australia, a race which he won from pole. "I guess we would have been disqualified if we had been not legal," Raikkonen said. He makes a fair point.
www.telegraph.co.uk
By Kevin Garside
Last Updated: 1:52am BST 03/08/2007
Full marks to Ferrari for letting Kimi Raikkonen speak for himself in the spy row dragging Formula One deeper into the dirt. The Finn can hardly be described as verbose, but at least he took his place in the official Hungarian Grand Prix press conference, which is exactly where Fernando Alonso should have been before being inexcusably pulled by his bosses.
In his customised, minimalist English, Raikkonen dismissed accusations of Ferrari running an illegal car in Australia, a race which he won from pole. "I guess we would have been disqualified if we had been not legal," Raikkonen said. He makes a fair point.
www.telegraph.co.uk
Aaahahahehe, chickens... What's wrong Ronny, afraid they might let the cat out of the bag and put you in a deeper hole than you are already in?
McLaren moves to protect drivers
Thursday, 02, August, 2007, 15:39
Fernando Alonso was given permission to miss Thursday's official Hungarian Grand Prix pre-event press conference after his McLaren team made an official request to the FIA.
Lewis Hamilton was also withdrawn from his usual Thursday meet-the-press gathering.
Though no reason was given for the action, it is believed McLaren is unwilling to have its drivers subjected to questions regarding the spy-gate scandal and the forthcoming FIA Appeal Court hearing.
www.itv-f1.com
Thursday, 02, August, 2007, 15:39
Fernando Alonso was given permission to miss Thursday's official Hungarian Grand Prix pre-event press conference after his McLaren team made an official request to the FIA.
Lewis Hamilton was also withdrawn from his usual Thursday meet-the-press gathering.
Though no reason was given for the action, it is believed McLaren is unwilling to have its drivers subjected to questions regarding the spy-gate scandal and the forthcoming FIA Appeal Court hearing.
www.itv-f1.com