FIA Decision
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From: Covington WA, USA
Originally Posted by PLYRS 3,Aug 1 2007, 01:34 PM
what advantage? by blowing the whistle on an illegal F part?
Ever hear that two wrongs don't make a right?
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From: Toronto
- you really don't understand F1 do you?McLaren had all the info to Ferrari - you don't think that gives them an advantage????
wow....Fact of the matter is that they were found GUILTY and recieved no punishment - like I said earlier - show me where this has ever happened before....but you don't like answering my questions because you know you can't...
The FIA ruling of guilty with no punishment set a new and dangerous precedent. I said that early on but again you ignore this fact also....
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From: Toronto
Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Aug 1 2007, 03:38 PM
Yup, exactly. Let the FIA do that. Hand the documents to the FIA unread. Just reading the documents in the first place is a crime in many countries, and also against the FIA rules.
Ever hear that two wrongs don't make a right?
Ever hear that two wrongs don't make a right?
If NS wanted to be a whistleblower - he should have go to the authorities not the Ferrari's main competitor...that is why the McLaren defense smells.....
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Aug 1 2007, 03:15 PM
One wrong was committed then. Another wrong was committed when it was covered up. Another wrong was committed when they were used to try and gain an advantage (by filing a complaint). Etc.
That very first wrong (Coughlan receiving the documents) probably should have deserved only a minor punishment for the team. Probation maybe. Something like they got.
But all the other wrongs that were done showed that he was not just a rogue employee acting on his own. Instead, it was a failure of ethics of the company as a whole as well as the individuals involved in particular.
That very first wrong (Coughlan receiving the documents) probably should have deserved only a minor punishment for the team. Probation maybe. Something like they got.
But all the other wrongs that were done showed that he was not just a rogue employee acting on his own. Instead, it was a failure of ethics of the company as a whole as well as the individuals involved in particular.
I was trying to keep it simple, thus increasing my chance that Nimesh would grasp the concept...
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Originally Posted by PLYRS 3,Aug 1 2007, 03:34 PM
they got probation.
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From: Toronto
Originally Posted by matrix,Aug 1 2007, 03:42 PM
If NS wanted to be a whistleblower - he should have go to the authorities not the Ferrari's main competitor...that is why the McLaren defense smells.....
So why wouldn't NS go the FIA and collect if he was truly acting as a whistleblower??? Doesn't add up!
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From: Toronto
Found it...
Saturday, 18 January, 2003, 14:13 GMT
Mosley aims to get tough
Motorsport boss Max Mosley has given a clear indication that Formula One manufacturers have no choice but to follow the radical rule changes made to the sport earlier this week.
And the president of the sport's governing body is to offer a $1m reward for anyone providing evidence that teams are cheating.
On Wednesday, the International Automobile Federation (FIA) issued a raft of new rules designed to cut costs and make racing more competitive.
Electronic aids such as traction and launch control are to be eliminated by 2004 at the latest with the FIA moving to have them taken off cars during the coming season.
Two-way telemetry (which allows changes to be made to the cars from the pits while they are out on the track) will not be allowed, nor will radio contact between the driver and team.
The "whistle-blower" offer is part of the of the zero tolerance approach announced by Mosley and F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone with regard to existing rules in 2003.
And Mosley has once again made it clear that the threat of an F1 breakaway will not hinder the quest to revamp the sport.
"If a major manufacturer doesn't like it, too bad," said Mosley.
"If a major manufacturer pulls out of the sport because of it (the rule changes), again too bad.
"What we will gain from these rule changes is far bigger than what we will lose by their absence."
New measures
# Pit to car telemetry banned
# No radio contact between driver and team
# Spare car cannot be used
# No access to cars between final qualifying and the race
# Standard braking systems and rear wings to be introduced from 2004
# Electronic aids to be eliminated by 2004
# Engines to last two races from 2005
Representatives of the major European carmakers, who are threatening to create their own championship from 2008 and have set up a company called GPWC to run it, met in Germany on Thursday.
The FIA has said that while it wanted to abolish traction control this season, it would allow the systems to remain in use until 2004 if teams could prove it would cost more to replace them.
"I would guess they will (use traction control this year) but they may all agree to end it sooner," said Mosley.
"They've undertaken to discuss it and try to see if they can."
Mosley, who expects some teams to resist, said he already detected some problems with McLaren.
"McLaren have a position that reminds me of America's during the Cold War, when they spent so much to win that conflict, also because nobody could match them on an economic level."
Team technical heads meet FIA race director Charlie Whiting on Friday to further discuss the new rules.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/motorspor...one/2668817.stm
Saturday, 18 January, 2003, 14:13 GMT
Mosley aims to get tough
Motorsport boss Max Mosley has given a clear indication that Formula One manufacturers have no choice but to follow the radical rule changes made to the sport earlier this week.
And the president of the sport's governing body is to offer a $1m reward for anyone providing evidence that teams are cheating.
On Wednesday, the International Automobile Federation (FIA) issued a raft of new rules designed to cut costs and make racing more competitive.
Electronic aids such as traction and launch control are to be eliminated by 2004 at the latest with the FIA moving to have them taken off cars during the coming season.
Two-way telemetry (which allows changes to be made to the cars from the pits while they are out on the track) will not be allowed, nor will radio contact between the driver and team.
The "whistle-blower" offer is part of the of the zero tolerance approach announced by Mosley and F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone with regard to existing rules in 2003.
And Mosley has once again made it clear that the threat of an F1 breakaway will not hinder the quest to revamp the sport.
"If a major manufacturer doesn't like it, too bad," said Mosley.
"If a major manufacturer pulls out of the sport because of it (the rule changes), again too bad.
"What we will gain from these rule changes is far bigger than what we will lose by their absence."
New measures
# Pit to car telemetry banned
# No radio contact between driver and team
# Spare car cannot be used
# No access to cars between final qualifying and the race
# Standard braking systems and rear wings to be introduced from 2004
# Electronic aids to be eliminated by 2004
# Engines to last two races from 2005
Representatives of the major European carmakers, who are threatening to create their own championship from 2008 and have set up a company called GPWC to run it, met in Germany on Thursday.
The FIA has said that while it wanted to abolish traction control this season, it would allow the systems to remain in use until 2004 if teams could prove it would cost more to replace them.
"I would guess they will (use traction control this year) but they may all agree to end it sooner," said Mosley.
"They've undertaken to discuss it and try to see if they can."
Mosley, who expects some teams to resist, said he already detected some problems with McLaren.
"McLaren have a position that reminds me of America's during the Cold War, when they spent so much to win that conflict, also because nobody could match them on an economic level."
Team technical heads meet FIA race director Charlie Whiting on Friday to further discuss the new rules.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/motorspor...one/2668817.stm
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From: Charlottesville
Originally Posted by PLYRS 3,Aug 1 2007, 02:06 PM
your expanded analogy is not the least bit accurate.
the fact of the matter is that no one has proven that Porsche in fact spent the money....
that is the difference.
not to mention giving the head of Porsche a bag of money belonging to Maserati is A LOT different than TELLING the head of Porsche that you have a bag of money belonging to Maserati.
the fact of the matter is that no one has proven that Porsche in fact spent the money....
that is the difference.
not to mention giving the head of Porsche a bag of money belonging to Maserati is A LOT different than TELLING the head of Porsche that you have a bag of money belonging to Maserati.
***
Let me also say that I am no fan of Ferrari, that I have an incredible amount of respect for Alonso, and that I was developing quite a respect for Hamilton. My true loyalties lay with Honda and Button, so I feel like I can be completely objective in this, and if I'm biased, it would be in McLaren's favor.
I'll say this again: Honda were given a major penalty not because they used their fuel tank to run underweight, but because they *could* have used their fuel tank to run underweight. So the FIA's decision not to punish McLaren is hugely inconsistent in my mind.
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From: Newport Beach
Ferrari is acting all butt hurt because one of their employees got pissed and gave out data supporting their cheating ways. Ever since the big Chin was pushed out, the Italian drama begins.
Just shut up and race !
Just shut up and race !