Someone else want to take this? I did not go to school to be an educator and this apparently requires a different strategy...

 

Ok sorry my credentials aren't met for you cause I don't post on a forum...lol

Dude your a fic king retard. The evo car with 400whp will probably still loose to the s2000 with 350whp similar weight. That is where it ends. I live right down the street from a certified track. I know all about different setups.


What I'm trying to prove to these guys is that an AWD car (with a set distribution of power [60rear/40front]) will encounter increased loss of wheel power as the speeds increase and the engine fights to put down power through all the gears and driveshafts. The RWD will suffer from the same losses, just not as much due to having less gears, less driveshafts, and less half shafts.


Also you are unfortunately brainwashed into thinking that a dyno means every gear will have that hp curve, when it will indeed not and adding in drag at 100mph (which dyno's dont do or maybe they do to a degree?) is a whole other aspect!

 

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Yeah well an awd car accelerates differently then a rwd car therfore need more whp then the rwd car to compete. I thought we were past this discussion and assume you knew.

an s2000 with 300whp will beat and evo with 400whp...why is that? If hp is hp it shouldn't happen. If the s2000 was closer in weight it would still win because it accelerates faster in higher speeds,

Also who the hell post in the racing section...lol
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Wow!

You must have never own or driven. 300whp s2000 or 400whp evo. I have owned both. I made 335whp in my s2000 with my first turbo setup. I also make 400whp in my evo before. A 300whp s200 will get smoke so bad from a 400whp evo. It won't even be a fair or close race. A 300whp s2000 is so slow still. A 300whp s2000 is a dog. That's like a s2000 with a greddy turbo kit or a stock boost comptech/ vortech kit. I have driven and owned these kits at these low 300whp levels and they are ungodly slow.

All I'm saying is when my evo dyno end at 404 whp, it's was greatly significantly fasten than my s2000 when it was making 335whp. Now my s2000 makes 442whp and now it's only margenoly faster than my 404whp evo.

 

Its all about power under the curve and how it puts it down. S2000 are have peaky power bands and evo's are mid range monsters. I have to agree that is an evo and s2000 had the same whp the evo would win in a drag race. And probably a roll as well.

 

Ok sorry my credentials aren't met for you cause I don't post on a forum...lol
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Me looking at your posts was just confirmation of what I already knew from this conversation.

"A certified track"? What does that even mean? You know about different setups? Elaborate? I feel like I'm talking to a know-it-all teenager.

No comment on the 400whp vs [now] 350whp bench race... Other people get it.

Geeze... Please stop. You're making yourself look like a fool. What does the weight distribution have to do with the amount of power going to the ground? You do not lose wheel horsepower as speeds increase, drag makes the same horsepower less adequate.

Less gears? The number of gears isn't a factor in itself. In addition, most Evo's have less gears than an S2000. Yes, AWD does have more stuff to turn (3 differentials, 4 axles, 4 rotors, 4 wheels, etc).

As a tuner, I've played around with a dyno more than I care to think about. You still fail to understand these topics you're commenting on. Both cars will have drag... Give it more drag, you give it more load. Turbochargers like load, but in either case, drag does not actually change the numbers.

I can say this; you're giving the Evo guys just as much ammo as you guys complained about earlier in this thread. Also, you do NOT know as much about cars as you think you do.

 

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I hope you both realize, this will go nowhere.. .

 

Sometimes you hope someone might actually learn something.

 

I am astounded at the complete lack of understanding of the wheel horsepower/whp concept in a RWD car vs. an AWD car. So much so that I feel it is my duty to very clearly explain reality as plainly as I possibly can, just in case some random person who doesn't know any better happens upon this thread in the future (I don't like false information being shared). So...


1. Wheel horsepower (aka "whp") is the power that makes it to the tire, after all drivetrain loss has been incurred. I thought everyone knew this, but apparently there is some level of misunderstanding so I wanted to start with the absolute basics. Yes, an AWD car suffers more drivetrain loss than a RWD car, which suffers more than a FWD car, all due to the increased resistance between the engine's flywheel and the tires. More axles, more differentials, more distance between the motor and tire, etc.--all of this equates to a higher drivetrain loss in AWD cars. And all of it is entirely meaningless when you're comparing the whp of the AWD car with the whp of any other car, because that whp number is taking drivetrain loss into account entirely.

2. Wheel horsepower is wheel horsepower period. It is directly comparable between any two cars. Doesn't matter if a car is RWD, AWD, FWD, has an LSD, has an open diff...the whp number is used throughout the enthusiast industry precisely because it IS directly comparable.

3. Any differences in the rate of acceleration between two hypothetical cars that have the same whp would be due to one of the following, NOT due to the drivetrain configuration itself:

3A) Area under the curve (or average power/torque being made across the entire RPM range). If one car makes significantly more power earlier and holds it longer than the other car, the first car will be faster regardless of what each vehicle's peak whp number happens to be. There is a reason a 400whp centrifugally-supercharged S2000 is slower than a 400whp turbocharged S2000. The supercharged car is going to have anywhere from 50-150 less whp for the majority of the powerband even though its peak output number happens to be the same.

3B) Gear ratios. Goes hand-in-hand with 3A because the gear ratio is what defines the start point and end point of the powerband, as well as where in the powerband the car will land in the next gear on an upshift.

3C) Weight.

3D) Coefficient of drag. A Scion xB, being shaped like a chair, will incur more wind resistance as speeds increase in comparison to a proper sports car such as a Corvette.

 

you don't know, untill you know. And knowing is half the battle

 

^What specific application is that in reference to? The split can vary... I don't recall how the Evo handles it's AWD, but my STi can go anywhere from a 50/50 split to 35/65 via the DCCD.