Finally made a decision
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From: formerly versionJDM
Originally Posted by QUIKAG,Mar 6 2008, 12:45 PM
Zam,
Did you just completely contradict yourself on the merits of the composive transverse mounted leaf spring?
Did you just completely contradict yourself on the merits of the composive transverse mounted leaf spring?
i know my truck has leaf springs and that the vettes are totally different.
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From: Warner Robins, GA
Originally Posted by QUIKAG,Mar 6 2008, 07:45 PM
Zam,
Did you just completely contradict yourself on the merits of the composive transverse mounted leaf spring?
Did you just completely contradict yourself on the merits of the composive transverse mounted leaf spring?
The point that mr moderator missed is that formula 1 cars do not use transverse leaf springs. I don't know what year they were transitioned out, but if you look at a cutaway of a modern F1 car (not a 1960s Ferrari), they do not have any type of leaf spring. I'm not a racing history buff, but I'll guess coil springs were integrated into F1 in the 60s.
"A single seat car was built with a Bristol engine for Jack Brabham to compete in Grand Prix racing whilst Formula 2 cars were raced by Brabham, Roy Salvadori and Bruce McLaren to many wins in 1957 and 1958. The 1958 cars were the first Coopers to discard the transverse leaf spring layout. Coopres were fitted with the Borgward "Rennsport" engine for rhe British Racing Partnership in 1959 and won all the 19 major races for their class."
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:9lsD-...clnk&cd=1&gl=us
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From: Warner Robins, GA
It was fun to be ridiculed by you guys, but I did learn somethings about the transverse leaf spring employed in corvettes since the 1962 C2. I'm not going to lie, before reading up on it I thought that leaf springs in trucks and the vette were just pointing in different directions. The vette setup is fairly sophisticated, but not common in modern sports cars.
From wiki:
[edit] Racing concerns
Running stiffer springs left-to-right would require either asymmetrical spring mounts or an asymmetric spring. However, a few companies such as VBP offer kits that allow independent adjustment of spring rate and ride height at all four corners of the car.
Regulations often prohibit the use of leaf springs; NASCAR does not allow them.
The more compact shape of a coil spring can allow for variation in more suspension design and spring placement. Because a transverse leaf spring must span the width of the car, open-wheel cars are too low to use them. The leaf spring would have to pass through the gearbox or the driver's legs.
Coil springs are not car-specific. A Porsche, an LMP, and a Ferrari can all use a spring custom wound on the same generic equipment. Custom composite leaf springs require expensive retooling and cannot be used across car models.
The characteristics of coil springs in a performance environment are known, and racers will use what they know. Most race teams do not have adequate experience with leaf springs to use them in this capacity.
And a cool image:
From wiki:
[edit] Racing concerns
Running stiffer springs left-to-right would require either asymmetrical spring mounts or an asymmetric spring. However, a few companies such as VBP offer kits that allow independent adjustment of spring rate and ride height at all four corners of the car.
Regulations often prohibit the use of leaf springs; NASCAR does not allow them.
The more compact shape of a coil spring can allow for variation in more suspension design and spring placement. Because a transverse leaf spring must span the width of the car, open-wheel cars are too low to use them. The leaf spring would have to pass through the gearbox or the driver's legs.
Coil springs are not car-specific. A Porsche, an LMP, and a Ferrari can all use a spring custom wound on the same generic equipment. Custom composite leaf springs require expensive retooling and cannot be used across car models.
The characteristics of coil springs in a performance environment are known, and racers will use what they know. Most race teams do not have adequate experience with leaf springs to use them in this capacity.
And a cool image:
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From: formerly versionJDM
Originally Posted by Zam,Mar 6 2008, 01:13 PM
It was fun to be ridiculed by you guys, but I did learn somethings about the transverse leaf spring employed in corvettes since the 1962 C2. I'm not going to lie, before reading up on it I thought that leaf springs in trucks and the vette were just pointing in different directions. The vette setup is fairly sophisticated, but not common in modern sports cars.
From wiki:
[edit] Racing concerns
Running stiffer springs left-to-right would require either asymmetrical spring mounts or an asymmetric spring. However, a few companies such as VBP offer kits that allow independent adjustment of spring rate and ride height at all four corners of the car.
Regulations often prohibit the use of leaf springs; NASCAR does not allow them.
The more compact shape of a coil spring can allow for variation in more suspension design and spring placement. Because a transverse leaf spring must span the width of the car, open-wheel cars are too low to use them. The leaf spring would have to pass through the gearbox or the driver's legs.
Coil springs are not car-specific. A Porsche, an LMP, and a Ferrari can all use a spring custom wound on the same generic equipment. Custom composite leaf springs require expensive retooling and cannot be used across car models.
The characteristics of coil springs in a performance environment are known, and racers will use what they know. Most race teams do not have adequate experience with leaf springs to use them in this capacity.
And a cool image:
From wiki:
[edit] Racing concerns
Running stiffer springs left-to-right would require either asymmetrical spring mounts or an asymmetric spring. However, a few companies such as VBP offer kits that allow independent adjustment of spring rate and ride height at all four corners of the car.
Regulations often prohibit the use of leaf springs; NASCAR does not allow them.
The more compact shape of a coil spring can allow for variation in more suspension design and spring placement. Because a transverse leaf spring must span the width of the car, open-wheel cars are too low to use them. The leaf spring would have to pass through the gearbox or the driver's legs.
Coil springs are not car-specific. A Porsche, an LMP, and a Ferrari can all use a spring custom wound on the same generic equipment. Custom composite leaf springs require expensive retooling and cannot be used across car models.
The characteristics of coil springs in a performance environment are known, and racers will use what they know. Most race teams do not have adequate experience with leaf springs to use them in this capacity.
And a cool image:
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From: The Beach
Well I am JUST AMASED that the RX-7 is STILL in the SS category...
Talk about a well designed platform....
Super Stock
SS BMW Z4 M Coupe/Roadster ('07+)
SS Chevrolet Corvette C5 ('97+) Corvette C6 ('05+) Corvette C6 Z06
SS Dodge Viper R/T, GTS Viper SRT-10
SS Lotus Elise ('05+) Esprit Turbo
SS Mazda RX-7 Turbo ('93+)
SS Porsche 911 (996 chassis) ('98+) 911 (997 chassis) ('05+) 911 GT3(996)
SS 911 Turbo, 930 (2WD) Boxster S ('05+) Cayman S ('06+)
SS BMW Z4 M Coupe/Roadster ('07+)
SS Chevrolet Corvette C5 ('97+) Corvette C6 ('05+) Corvette C6 Z06
SS Dodge Viper R/T, GTS Viper SRT-10
SS Lotus Elise ('05+) Esprit Turbo
SS Mazda RX-7 Turbo ('93+)
SS Porsche 911 (996 chassis) ('98+) 911 (997 chassis) ('05+) 911 GT3(996)
SS 911 Turbo, 930 (2WD) Boxster S ('05+) Cayman S ('06+)
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From: Orlando
Originally Posted by QUIKAG,Mar 6 2008, 10:50 AM
Here's the deal if you think the C6 blows.
I have $5,000 (no, I am not kidding) on any street-legal 996 C2 or C4 (no turbo or GT3) with full interior and stock suspension, stock brakes against my bolt-on full interior, stock suspension, stock brakes plain-jane C6 taking me at any DFW local roadcourse over a lapping session (fastest lap time wins).
For that matter, let's toss in the E46 M3 and the new E92 M3 as well with the same restrictions as above.
So, any takers on my Vette? I would love for someone tshow me the superiority of the standard 911 models over a lowly Corvette.
I have $5,000 (no, I am not kidding) on any street-legal 996 C2 or C4 (no turbo or GT3) with full interior and stock suspension, stock brakes against my bolt-on full interior, stock suspension, stock brakes plain-jane C6 taking me at any DFW local roadcourse over a lapping session (fastest lap time wins).
For that matter, let's toss in the E46 M3 and the new E92 M3 as well with the same restrictions as above.
So, any takers on my Vette? I would love for someone tshow me the superiority of the standard 911 models over a lowly Corvette.
You cant deny that fact that the M3 does more with 3 strikes against it.
A friend of the family is waiting on delivery of his E92. He resides in Arizona. He might be willing to take you up on your offer. Must warn you though, this man has been racing cars for at least 15 years. I'll shoot you a PM when the time comes.
**Allowing the M a few bolt-ons would be fair too. From what I've seen at M3post, you would be in for one hell of a fight.
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From: formerly versionJDM
Originally Posted by Onehots2k,Mar 6 2008, 01:25 PM
Why is it so hard to believe that a stock E92 M3 can outhandle a stock C6??? It barely does it, but still. The acceleration difference is marginal even though the C6 has more HP and shitload more torque. The weight difference is over 400lb.
You cant deny that fact that the M3 does more with 3 strikes against it.
A friend of the family is waiting on delivery of his E92. He resides in Arizona. He might be willing to take you up on your offer. Must warn you though, this man has been racing cars for at least 15 years. I'll shoot you a PM when the time comes.
**Allowing the M a few bolt-ons would be fair too. From what I've seen at M3post, you would be in for one hell of a fight.
You cant deny that fact that the M3 does more with 3 strikes against it.
A friend of the family is waiting on delivery of his E92. He resides in Arizona. He might be willing to take you up on your offer. Must warn you though, this man has been racing cars for at least 15 years. I'll shoot you a PM when the time comes.
**Allowing the M a few bolt-ons would be fair too. From what I've seen at M3post, you would be in for one hell of a fight.
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From: La Habra
Zam, dude, quit while you're not THAT far in the hole! Too many people here actually raced late model vettes, myself included, and can smell you talking out of your butt.
Are you going to whine about the pushrod engine next?
Are you going to whine about the pushrod engine next?
