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The Formula 1 Thread - 2014

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Old Jul 25, 2014 | 01:20 AM
  #601  
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Originally Posted by arsie
Function is not feel. The weight and spec may be identical but the feel is all to do with how driver uses them and 'feels' and the interaction with him/her. The function, weight, spec etc of brake pads, fluid and discs may be identical so would be ok to change without conflicting Parc Fermé rules imho. Especially since there was a crash caused as a result of a part failure.
Apparently Hamilton preferred the more immediate response of the Brembo disks. I.e. for a certain amount of pedal pressure they provide more stopping power, unlike the CI disks which are more progressive. I don't know how you can say that isn't function.
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Old Jul 25, 2014 | 01:33 AM
  #602  
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Dembo I just explained why I think 'progressive' feel is within the variation permissible (until LG explains otherwise.). They may have the same weight, fit the same, stop with the same power but how this is carried out may differ and this provides choice to the driver. Clearly the F1 in their rules consider these different manufacturers' brakes to be the same, functionally. You obviously don't. If you consider the F1 rules to be wrong then I suggest approaching Bernie Ecclestone and explaining why - a career change opportunity for you?

The choice of brakes which 'do more for you' versus those requiring more progressive input to achieve the same stopping power is personal. Some drivers prefer the 'assisted' feel of Brembo, some like the Carbon Industrie more 'progressive' feel. Driver choice. Stopping power must ultimately be similar within the rules. Wear is a related issue.

I would be interested what a racing driver thinks on this e.g. MB
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Old Jul 25, 2014 | 02:50 AM
  #603  
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Originally Posted by arsie
Dembo I just explained why I think 'progressive' feel is within the variation permissible (until LG explains otherwise.). They may have the same weight, fit the same, stop with the same power but how this is carried out may differ and this provides choice to the driver. Clearly the F1 in their rules consider these different manufacturers' brakes to be the same, functionally. You obviously don't. If you consider the F1 rules to be wrong then I suggest approaching Bernie Ecclestone and explaining why - a career change opportunity for you?
You didn't explain, you just stated that feel is not function. If you plotted a graph of how the disk functioned, you'd draw pedal power vs. stopping power, and they would be different. What is your definition of function if not that?

Red Bull and Ferrari considered a protest, so it's not just an arm chair expert like me that was surprised by this decision. What Christian Horner said (again) is what they want is clarity, because as far as he and Red Bull's technical experts knew, they weren't allowed to change brake disks under Parc Fermé. If they are, then that's a competitive advantage they might be able to use every race. And if anyone can find the way to bend the rules it's Red Bull.

Not that it matters. If changing disks had meant a penalty that meant something (e.g. Hamilton was on pole but would have to start from the pit lane), then Mercedes would never have done it.
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Old Jul 25, 2014 | 03:49 AM
  #604  
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Originally Posted by Dembo
Not that it matters. If changing disks had meant a penalty that meant something (e.g. Hamilton was on pole but would have to start from the pit lane), then Mercedes would never have done it.
I don't understand this obsession with Hamilton's disc change. Any penalty for a brake disc change would have affected Rosberg far more (and let's not forget that is what actually happened. That's the real reason why other teams were thinking about a protest.

The Parc Fermé report makes for interesting reading: http://184.106.145.74/f1-championshi...t%20-%2033.pdf


Car 01 and 03 (Red Bull):
Rear brake friction material
Parameters associated with change of rear brake friction material

Car 44 (Hamilton):
Front and rear brake friction material similar in mass, inertia and function

Car 06 (Rosberg):
Rear brake friction material similar in mass, inertia and function
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Old Jul 25, 2014 | 04:22 AM
  #605  
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Yeah quite interesting to see what gets replaced - actually quite a lot is allowed and quite minute detail - "Anchor nut on waste gate shield" and "Washer for LHS front calliper cooling duct fastener" - they could totally alter the outcome of a race
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Old Jul 25, 2014 | 06:39 AM
  #606  
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Old Jul 26, 2014 | 04:06 AM
  #607  
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OH FOR f@#kS f@#kING SAKE
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Old Jul 26, 2014 | 04:20 AM
  #608  
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Looks like another "uneven" weekend at present...

I'm sure someone will be along soon to say that the fire was Hamilton's fault
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Old Jul 26, 2014 | 04:40 AM
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we think alike
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Old Jul 26, 2014 | 06:43 AM
  #610  
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"I would prefer to be out there battling with Lewis and that would give me the maximum adrenaline rush," said Rosberg of his team-mate's misfortune.

He certainly talks good PR speak. The truth couldn't be farther from the above.
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