The Formula 1 Thread - 2018
07-24-2018, 07:07 AM
#61
First there was Hamilton overtaking like a hot knife through butter up to fifth from fourteenth on the grid inside 20 laps of 67 - his minimum expectation.
Then both Ferraris pitted and both came out in front of him on fresh tyres and you thought it was all over bar the shouting with half the race run, until some rain livened the track up and Vettel, with greatly reduced front end grip, completely misjudged his entry to turn 9 and slid straight off in the lead on lap 52. The other three in front of Hamilton pitted for tyres before/under the safety car. It is a moot point whether Hamilton might have won anyway, with his skill in the wet he was gaining over 3 seconds a lap on ultrasofts.
His split second decision not to pit - against team orders - won the race.
Helped by team orders to Bottas to hold position in 2nd
Last edited by arsie; 07-24-2018 at 07:22 AM.
07-24-2018, 07:14 AM
#62
I don't think the team orders would make any difference, once Hamilton realised Botta's was having a go at it and he got some heat into his tyres he put the hammer down and pulled out of DRS range anyway. Just Merc being cautious on a wet track with slicks I think.
07-25-2018, 03:35 AM
#63
Registered User
Read a couple of interviews around this over the last few days.
The team orders were a reaction to being very paranoid about a penalty from the dive over the pit entry back onto the track. They wanted to be able to help stay ahead of any other challenge if they picked up a time penalty and hence wanted the gap that Bottas would create to anyone following him. In the end a bit moot.
Also there was a some interviews about why no penalty. Ultimately there was little precedence. Most incidents have been coming into the lane late not going out of the lane late in that way. The only equivalent they had was Raikkonen a few years back but he was at racing pace and near some other cars. Hamilton was under the safety car in this case and much slower so they judged it ultimately safe. Hence a reprimand rather than a penalty.
The team orders were a reaction to being very paranoid about a penalty from the dive over the pit entry back onto the track. They wanted to be able to help stay ahead of any other challenge if they picked up a time penalty and hence wanted the gap that Bottas would create to anyone following him. In the end a bit moot.
Also there was a some interviews about why no penalty. Ultimately there was little precedence. Most incidents have been coming into the lane late not going out of the lane late in that way. The only equivalent they had was Raikkonen a few years back but he was at racing pace and near some other cars. Hamilton was under the safety car in this case and much slower so they judged it ultimately safe. Hence a reprimand rather than a penalty.
07-26-2018, 07:09 AM
#64
Good point re possible time penalty for aborting out of the pit lane.
Thinking about it, Hamilton's jumping from 5th to 1st was 'precipitated' by the rain and his skill on slicks in the wet, starting to catch the others by ~3 seconds a lap. This pressure contributed to Vettel's mistake / slide off into the tyre wall: you could see him turning the steering wheel but his front tyres had zero grip. I thought at the time he was aquaplaning.
Thereafter the other three rightly took advantage of the resulting slow running laps under the safety car to pit and change tyres from slicks, which left Hamilton in front. He only just averted another Mercedes cock up by over-riding their 'box box box' message and as you say LG he did his swerve back onto the track from the pit lane entry with no cars around him and at safety car (so relatively low) speed.
What would have been fun is if they had all held position under the safety car then race the last ten laps to the finish in the wet all on slicks
Thinking about it, Hamilton's jumping from 5th to 1st was 'precipitated' by the rain and his skill on slicks in the wet, starting to catch the others by ~3 seconds a lap. This pressure contributed to Vettel's mistake / slide off into the tyre wall: you could see him turning the steering wheel but his front tyres had zero grip. I thought at the time he was aquaplaning.
Thereafter the other three rightly took advantage of the resulting slow running laps under the safety car to pit and change tyres from slicks, which left Hamilton in front. He only just averted another Mercedes cock up by over-riding their 'box box box' message and as you say LG he did his swerve back onto the track from the pit lane entry with no cars around him and at safety car (so relatively low) speed.
What would have been fun is if they had all held position under the safety car then race the last ten laps to the finish in the wet all on slicks
Last edited by arsie; 07-26-2018 at 07:13 AM.
07-27-2018, 03:47 AM
#65
Registered User
In commentary they were talking about the gamble/difficulty etc of Hamiltons tyres.
He'd been out a long time and was pretty much forced to come in when he did as his tyres were shot. If it had rained much harder at that point he'd have had a real penalty having to come back in to change tyres again.
As it was it didn't rain that hard, his tyres were nice and fresh meaning plenty of rubber and able to keep the temperatures up giving him plenty of grip compared to those on older slicks. The rain never got bad enough for inters or wets except at a couple of corners.
Once the others stopped for tyres under the safety car they got that advantage on him. Fortunately on the restart the car behind was Bottas. His tyres came up faster as they were fresher but he was told to hold station before he could challenge. Hamiltons tyres were still good enough to lap quickly and that was it.
Anyone driving quickly in the rain on slicks is good but he did have fortune with the circumstances as they happened.
He'd been out a long time and was pretty much forced to come in when he did as his tyres were shot. If it had rained much harder at that point he'd have had a real penalty having to come back in to change tyres again.
As it was it didn't rain that hard, his tyres were nice and fresh meaning plenty of rubber and able to keep the temperatures up giving him plenty of grip compared to those on older slicks. The rain never got bad enough for inters or wets except at a couple of corners.
Once the others stopped for tyres under the safety car they got that advantage on him. Fortunately on the restart the car behind was Bottas. His tyres came up faster as they were fresher but he was told to hold station before he could challenge. Hamiltons tyres were still good enough to lap quickly and that was it.
Anyone driving quickly in the rain on slicks is good but he did have fortune with the circumstances as they happened.
07-28-2018, 06:33 AM
#66
Mercedes lucked out in Hungary quali, it rained. 1-2 on the grid for Hamilton-Bottas followed by Ferrari on row 2.
The race assuming dry will be interesting as Ferrari are clearly faster, as Toto Wolff admits. He said in interview that Mercedes wasn't expecting to best Ferrari so it will be interesting with a long run from the starting grid into turn 1. An inexplicable tyre choice meant Riccardo failed to make it past Q1 and starts from P12 on the grid so there will be another top six driver carving through the field in this race.
The race assuming dry will be interesting as Ferrari are clearly faster, as Toto Wolff admits. He said in interview that Mercedes wasn't expecting to best Ferrari so it will be interesting with a long run from the starting grid into turn 1. An inexplicable tyre choice meant Riccardo failed to make it past Q1 and starts from P12 on the grid so there will be another top six driver carving through the field in this race.
07-28-2018, 11:55 AM
#67
UK Moderator
Thread Starter
Mercedes lucked out in Hungary quali, it rained. 1-2 on the grid for Hamilton-Bottas followed by Ferrari on row 2.
The race assuming dry will be interesting as Ferrari are clearly faster, as Toto Wolff admits. He said in interview that Mercedes wasn't expecting to best Ferrari so it will be interesting with a long run from the starting grid into turn 1. An inexplicable tyre choice meant Riccardo failed to make it past Q1 and starts from P12 on the grid so there will be another top six driver carving through the field in this race.
The race assuming dry will be interesting as Ferrari are clearly faster, as Toto Wolff admits. He said in interview that Mercedes wasn't expecting to best Ferrari so it will be interesting with a long run from the starting grid into turn 1. An inexplicable tyre choice meant Riccardo failed to make it past Q1 and starts from P12 on the grid so there will be another top six driver carving through the field in this race.
