nothing better than a wet Dragon ... oh, darn it ... i fell for that again.

agreed ... it was a little damp the first morning i was there. Between that and all the leaves as well ... made me so nervous just to turn on a blinker!!!

 

[QUOTE=Devious.,Jan 16 2007, 10:30 PM]

 

Porsche owners ... eat your heart out!

negcambers 'milkshake'

 

Call it as you see it?!?! So you get on Bill for crossing the center line, yet post a video of yourself excessively speeding on a pulbic road. Nice

And that's exactly the $#@ that get's to me. Go ahead, tell Bill how unsafe he is, tell him how immoral it is to cross the yellow lines. I mean it's the interent after all and we all have the right to be idiots behind a keyboard.

 

I never crossed that yellow line. That's my point, I never said slow down. Stay in control and stay in your lane. Drive fast, have fun. Pick empty roads. It's fairly simple stuff, and it's still not safe.

But life is a series of calculated risks. Just do the math, that's all I ask. Whatever you do, you do. But I like you guys and I'd hate to see anything happen to you or anyone else. I'll call it as I see it. You shouldn't cross that yellow line. Ever.

Go ahead and post that video of the lane crossing in the Dragon Forum. See what happens.

 

holy shit guys, this is getting out of hand. brian, i would really be disappointed if you left cause the last group drive was the first one i actually drove with you and it would really suck if you just stopped attending. this is getting ridiculous. i know i posted this in another thread but i remember what RXDI said a long time ago, "fighting on the internet is like competing in the special olympics"(this is to lighten the situation so please dont bash me for it)

 

i kind of recall the powerslides on public roads from Scorpion and got stop by the PoPo's... So yeah, its not cool calling him out for his actions and here you are doing a few bad things yourself...

We all do stupid shit, every single one of us... We just got to get it in our heads to just ease up when we're in a big group, especially when theres a drive going on.

 

My car has been on stands for about 5 months now, so I haven't been on the forum or to meets much. So when I do check these boards it kills me to see our community needlessly fractured over what seems pretty clear and simple to me.

There is no contradiction or hypocrisy or "high and mighty" in someone stating that line crossing is very dangerous and should not be done, condoned, or encouraged, and that same someone advocating spirited, controlled driving within one's own lane. Crossing the yellow line is inherently more dangerous than speeding (within the limits of one's capability) within one's own lane.

Willie Gee was not "excessively speeding". I only watched the first 5 minutes of the vid, but it appeared to me that he was well with his capabilities.

This does bring up the rather less clear and simple issue of what, and how does one learn, one's limits or capabilities? Some learn at autocrosses or HPDE's, but most of us learn just by seat time and an open mind.

Learn from the collective experience of this forum's participants. What many here are trying to say is that if you are crossing the center line, you are driving beyond your ability and need to slow it down. Feel what the car is trying to tell you at slower speeds. Then turn around and hit the same curves, maybe a bit faster. Try a slightly different line or change the timing of brake/throttle application. Rinse and repeat, and the time will come when you can carry much more corner speed while staying in your lane.

I think the issue is magnified more with the group drives. By definition the drive leader(s) know the roads better than some following. Shoot, I'd bet most followers had never been on the roads before. So some leaders may be at 9/10's and having a blast, and in the heat of the moment forget that those following don't know the lines and braking points on those particular curves. So, for whatever reason, fear of getting left behind, lost, ridiculed for being slow (although this should never happen), the followers feel like they have to overdrive their capabilities, go 11/10's, and cross the center line.

Let me give you a personal example. I street ride alot. But I am not a natural line reader. Sometimes I will be behind someone on a road I know he and I have never ridden on, but I can tell the other guy has a knack for reading the curve and taking a good line. He leans over and is gone while I slow down and go through my mental calculation of where I do and don't want to put my bike. I'm ok with that, and even though I purposefully slow a little to "digest" the curve, I have occasionally gone over the line, much to my ass-puckering chagrin. I can say that the more I ride, the less it has happened.

On rides where I lead, on roads that I know but people behind me don't know, I can't assume that they will have the experience, wisdom, good judgment, or sense of self-preservation to slow down, so I do it for them, even though it costs me my personal enjoyment of the moment. Hell, I can always come back and ride these roads, so I lightly tug at the brake lever repeatedly approaching the curves, flashing brakes, to let the followers know that there is a strange curve ahead.

So where is all my rambling going? Well I guess, for me, it's simple.

1) Crossing the center line should not be condoned or encouraged, and if it happens, the group should, in the nicest, most constructive way possible, help the driver work out why it happened, and maybe how to prevent it in the future. Face it, there is not one among us who is a pro or even good amateur driver, or who doesn't have room for improvement. This forum, as WG so kindly defined for us, has the potential to make us all better drivers, but somehow, either because some people aren't willing to open their minds to criticism (and the possibility of improvement) or some are too easy to dole out quick throw-away criticism, the forum is turning into the drama hour on the Lifetime network.

2) Group drive leaders may need to slow it down. Not everyone behind you has the advantage of knowing the road. Not everyone behind you has the experience to know to slow it down. You have to lead taking into account the least experienced/able driver behind you.

3) Followers, don't worry about getting lost or the guy behind you riding your bumper - don't drive over your comfort/ability level. It's the responsibility of the leaders (and caboose, if there is one) to make sure you don't get lost, and they'll surely catch hell if you do. As for the guy riding your bumper, if there is a safe legal place for him to pass, make it easy and clear to him to do so. But at the next stop, let him know he was following too close and make sure he's not behind you for the next leg.

There's no reason to cross the double yellow except driver error. The lucky ones catch some shit from the forum, boo-hoo. The unlucky ones catch the grill of an oncoming Buick Roadmaster. A local rider and AMA racer who also sold me a few bikes in years past made a mistake and went wide in a turn on a Sunday ride 3 years ago and died. I'd hate that to happen to one of us.

 

thank you chiung ... good stuff

 

Who gives a #$@% about the freaking yellow line. It's not a barrier that makes you safe or unsafe. Doing 80mph down a road is just as unsafe as corssing the yellow line,. What because you think you are in control that makes it ok? What if a tire blew out? What if a deer ran out of the woods in front of you? What about a run away kid that just wants some water? Ok the last one was a stretch, but you get the point.

Life is a series of riskes, you don't have to tell me that. You made one by speeding, Bill and some others have made it by cutting a corner tight. They are the same thing.

And I could give two @#$@ about what people think in the Dragon forum, they are not the end-all-be-all to appropriate driving.

And yes, I drive recklessly. I even got a ticket proving it. I make no attempts to say otherwise. But I've also never commented on someone elses driving until now. And the only reason I'm doing it is to show that people who think they do no wrong and like to get on others need to stop and take alook at themselves.

Uhhh, but sitting here I have realized that I'm just wasting my time. Some peoples kids are just like that. I'm done