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Breakin Period and Idle RPM

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Old Dec 14, 2005 | 04:55 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Tomatoevo,Dec 14 2005, 06:49 PM
Ok, this is news to me.

My evo came with synthetic oil (mobil 1) right off the lot, even the oil cap says use only synthetic. So why do you only use synthetic after 10k miles?
You're talking about a Mitsu...I am talking about a Honda. No need to beat this issue to death as there are many other threads which discuss it.
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Old Dec 14, 2005 | 05:39 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by 2QYK4U,Dec 14 2005, 03:56 PM
The memo from Honda directs their service advisors not to change the oil during the first 7500 miles as the factory uses special oil. This has nothing to do with synthetic oil. Concerning synthetic oil, it has been discussed to exhaustion that you do not use synthetic oil until after 10000 miles.
OK, both of us can't be right, so I've found that memo. You can decide who's blowing smoke out there ass. Here it is. You may have to "save as" and blow it up to be able to read it.

For the time being, I'll "excerpt" the key parts for you here:
Here's the part I don't buy but that's just me (and I've given my rationale for this in many other threads) .......................
[QUOTE]The factory-fill oil has special additives, so it should be left in the engine until the first oil change:
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Old Dec 14, 2005 | 07:00 PM
  #23  
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^^^ First time I've actually seen that article...heard everything second hand. That article is really dated though--talks about MY00-01 S2Ks. Anyways, the question has been raised numerous times on this forum, as well as on www.vtec.net, and more often than not it is recommended to wait until 7500 miles to change the break-in oil and 10000 miles to go synthetic.
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Old Dec 14, 2005 | 08:12 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 2QYK4U,Dec 14 2005, 10:00 PM
^^^ First time I've actually seen that article...heard everything second hand. That article is really dated though--talks about MY00-01 S2Ks. Anyways, the question has been raised numerous times on this forum, as well as on www.vtec.net, and more often than not it is recommended to wait until 7500 miles to change the break-in oil and 10000 miles to go synthetic.
I was never talking about "what was recommended" by "unknowns". Those are based upon "opinion, conjecture, hearsay, and best guess". I was talking about the memo put out by Honda USA with specific reference to the S2000, which that is a scan of. Nor did I bring into the discussion the "dated-ness" of the memo. I posted based on documented and concrete fact. There is always a danger of posting "second hand" information and lending the "impression" that it is gospel.
When I first posted that, I was not sure so I used the term "I believe". Now that I have presented proof, I hereby retract that statement and now say, "I know".
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Old Dec 14, 2005 | 09:22 PM
  #25  
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Hey thanks for spoon feeding us noobs, xviper.

2QYK4U, I'm not talking about a mistu vs. a honda, it is simply an internal combustion engine, not magic. I was simply wondering why honda would recommend to stay away from synthetic for the break-in period, thanks to xviper for answering that question.
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Old Dec 15, 2005 | 05:32 AM
  #26  
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Good job, xv!!! That's the memo! I'm glad you dug that up; I have been unable to find it for a few years.

If you have any questions about what it says, ask up! Otherwise, if you want to talk about alternative rmethods regarding the care of your car, please know that I will continue to support the factory's recommendations and tell newbies precisely what Honda tells them to do.

I sincerely hope that most new owners who actually end up here talking to us will take the time to read their owner's manual cover to cover and continue to ask about what they see there. Ignorance is a mistake, but curiousity is not.
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Old Dec 15, 2005 | 06:49 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Tomatoevo,Dec 15 2005, 12:22 AM
Hey thanks for spoon feeding us noobs, xviper.

thanks to xviper for answering that question.
You're welcome. I just hate to see misinformation and second hand "news" being posted up as "the way it is".

Actually the answer is far more complicated that just that memo.
The S2000 engine uses a Fiber Re-inforced Metal (carbon fiber content) cylinder liner. Originally, Honda used this technology because of the potentially sustained high piston speeds. Of course, the rings had to be compatible with this function as well. No other (at least few other) mass produced, publicly available car engines has this. I believe this was Honda's attempt to "over-build" this engine but in doing so, resulted in a ring to cylinder wall seating (break-in) that is somewhat prolonged and in some examples, somewhat problematic. The excessive oil consumption in the 2.0L engines may have given Honda a clue to this and hence, that "memo" was generated. MORE friction was needed to help seat those rings. Synthetic was considered too slippery and would prolong the process, although it would, by NO means, be "harmful". Some people read this stuff and freak out, thinking that synthetic oil is a "poison" for this engine in the first phase of its life. These are people who have a lesser understanding of what's taking place here.
Granted, the info contained in that "memo" is dated, BUT, until something newer comes along to supercede it, it can be considered still valid.

Now, here's an interesting turn of events:
We have now seen with the AP2 engines (2.2L to be exact), that this oil consumption issue is not as prevalent as for the 2.0L engines. We see very few owners of 2.2L engines remarking about the kind of oil useage that the 2.0L engines have encountered. Why? Honda has not been very forthcoming in this regard and has left us to once again, take a wild guess. My guess is that they have either changed the make-up of the FRM liners, found a different ring and/or matched the two in a more compatable way. Some may argue that the reduction of redline by about 1000 rpm may have something to do with the reduced oil useage but one must take into consideration that because of the increased stroke to make the 2.2L displacement, piston speeds are still as high as before.
So does that memo apply to the 2.2? I think Honda's jury is still out on this. They're standing by and waiting and reading forums like this to get a finger on the pulse of how things are turning out before making any changes to existing recommendations.
"Personally" (please take note of this word), if I were an owner of an S2000 with a 2.2L, I would proceed to the first oil change interval after having tracked and documented the oil consumption up to that point, then making the decision with regards to synthetic at that time. If my engine did not use any significant oil up to that point, I would convert to synthetic then. Again, this is just "me".
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Old Dec 15, 2005 | 07:21 AM
  #28  
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I bought my new 2005 a week and a half ago. Things the dealer forgot to discuss:

1) I had to ask them for the remotes and floor mats - they were no where in sight.

2) The boot that covers the top was not explained. I decided to check it out and discovered my top wouldn't go completely down into the bay. After a closer look I discovered a big clunky license plate holder laying at the bottom of the bay blocking it.

3) No discussion about shifting speeds, rpms, break in, etc.

It became pretty evident when I was driving around with the saleswoman that she really didn't know the car that well. Being new to the S2000, I babied the car all the way home, and read the book from page 1.
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