It's not my theory. Skip Barber, Ross Bentley (Speed Secrets), and BSR all teach heel indexing and rolling the foot to blip the throttle.

I disagree, a perfectly performed trail braking turn is at the limit of tire adhesion so you blend from straight line threshold braking to turning threshold braking and blend more cornering g and less deceleration g (theoretically leading to a hollow traction circle graph).

Your left foot braking could be helping quite a bit, especially if your left heel is on the floorboard.

Keep in mind that braking zones are usually bumpy so your 30lb leg is getting bounced around pretty good with it up in the air. You might be pleasantly surprised how much better you could brake with your heel on the floor.

 

Well, my heel is on the floor for initial threshold braking but not completely through the heel/toe movement.

Let me ask you this. I have been running a data logger for several years. All my data demonstrates the large hollow area you describe in a the middle of the friction circle. How could I achieve this if my heel/toe performance is flawed? Another way to look at this is to compare my performance (in a Miata with no ABS) and another driver here on the forum with and identical datalogger and an S2000. Turn by turn analysis of the data at VIR showed that I was entering, midcornering and exiting pretty much every corner faster then the S2000 (despite the fact that the S2000 had faster overall lap times).

I obviously don't disagree with the textbook definition of trail braking/cornering you are giving but your statement that you CAN'T achieve threshold braking unless your heel is planted in simply not correct. It might be 1) harder to achieve 2) require strong core strength and coordination but I am willing to be that my data will show that I am braking at LEAST as much as you if not more. Tell you what, pick any turn that you have data on. I'll supply data for that turn as well. I think you will that I

1) achieve threshold braking (>1g)
2) the increase in lateral Gs rises smoothly as braking Gs diminish (trailbraking)


Yet this should be impossible for me to achieve according to you? I would be careful to suggest that a specific technique will make it impossible to perform something. I certainly heel toe and trail brake. There is also a moment when my heel is not on the floor.

 

Pete,

I'm truly sorry if I insulted you in any way. I have great respect for your driving and instructing skill--I know that in equal equipment you'd be faster than me.

I didn't mean to imply that you can't achieve threshold braking with your heel off the floor, I know that many people do. I think it was this statement that made you think I meant that threshold braking is impossible without your heel on the floor:
What I was trying to say is that with your heel indexed you can do this better--make a smaller, smoother correction to get the wheel turning, and I stand by this statement: I'm sure you could threshold brake even better if you'd index your heel.

It's kind of like a golf swing, there's the textbook beautiful swing but there are championship caliber players out there with serious hitches and quirks but you can't argue with their results.

I didn't mean to imply that I can out brake you either, but when you're talking about fundamental technique indexing the heel is the preferred method because it's easier to keep your leg and foot steady as you modulate the brake pedal. For people that want to learn to threshold brake while heel & toeing I highly recommend modifying the pedals so they can keep their heel on the floorboard.

Again Pete, I'm sorry if I offended you, you're a great guy and I feel lucky to call you a friend.

Rob

P.S. I love you man.

 

No offense taken Rob. You are probably right that IF I could keep my heel on the floor 100% of the time it would be a more stable platform. However, I am a little bitty person with teeny, tiny feet and my heel just does not want to stay on the floor the whole time. My whole leg probably only weighs 5-6 lbs which is why it is not much of an issue. You, on the other hand are a large sized and probably wear a size 13 shoe so keeping your heel on the ground is not a problem.

Your golf analogy is exactly the point I was trying to make. Practice anything long enough and you can make it work very well indeed. But if anyone is is learning heel/toe now it makes sense to start with the textbook standard and then later modify if desired.

I am confident that I am faster in a Miata than you but not nearly so sure about the S2000. Seat time is one variable that can't be overlooked and you have much more track seat time in a S2000 than I do. I expect it will take me some time to adjust to the new car before I can catch up to you.


Lastly, don't get all mushy on me and then mention love. just because I drove a Miata does not mean you can play around with my emotions like that.

 

 

 

To recap,

There is >1 way to heel toe

Rob has giant feet, opts to use his heel, and has no core strength

Pete has a tiny feet, controls braking with his stomach muscles(?), and possesses kung foo toe control

Both can turn a thread about shifting into an affirmation of their affection for each other in under 5 posts.

Does this sum it up?

 

Nailed it.

 

You forgot that Rob's heel can reach the floor.

(I didn't really want to mention this previously, but the way this thread has gone?)

I love all of my track buddies

 

You guys are making me misty

Anyway, both Pete's and Rob's techniques are working for both of them. So I would say they both have good techniques. But for me, looks like Pete's techniques will work on my favor because I don't have size 13 shoes .

The techniques I have been working on, is with the heel off the floor and trailbraking is where I usually missed up. I will try to work on Rob's technique also since I have not tried it, and it might work best for my physique since I don't have a strong core muscle (due to love hundle ).

Thanks Guy