In a previous thread
(https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...8027#post297710) I rambled into how Islam's extremist groups, and their apparent support by their governments and peoples might be partly explained by the fact that Church and State are indistinguishable for the majority of Middle East nations.

Well, the phenomenon is not unique to the Middle East -- but at least we don't have religious assholes such as these in government:

"Television evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, two of the most prominent voices of the religious right, said liberal civil liberties groups, feminists, homosexuals and abortion rights supporters bear partial responsibility for Tuesday's terrorist attacks because their actions have turned God's anger against America."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2001Sep14.html

I cannot believe their nerve to twist this tradegy around to support their own right-wing fundamentalist agendas.

Then again, they're religious fundamentalists -- the fact that they're Western-Christian doesn't make them much different from the Islamic kind -- so not a big surprise.

Infuriating.

 

Agreed Silver fog, but there are other religions besides Christianity and Islam and frankly speaking they have their fair share of right wing fundamentalists too.

I think we all need to take a more middle ground view rather than clinging to age old beliefs and experiences and justifying our current bigotry on events of the past. We need to get off this treadmill and start again with open minds if we are to have any chance of ending this cycle of violence and distrust.

 

Dumb, dumb, dumb!

 

Entirely true, however its moreso a question of how these religions relate to the operation of their foster states, not necessarily which ones support and habour ultra right-wing fundamentalist views.

Fortunately, hundreds of years ago the West broke free of the blinders that the Western churches had imposed. Unfortunately, religion and state are as close as they were in the Middle East as they were at 0 B.C.

Jesus Christ himself was quite blunt on the relation of faith and civic duty, that is, ultimately, the relation of church and state. When asked by a follower whether or not they, having no authority other then God, should pay their taxes, Jesus replied "give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, give unto God, what is God's." That is, continue to pay your taxes -- this obligation is no different now that your heart belongs to God.

When church and state are one, there are no innocent civilians in the infidel's camp. Women, children, wounded, sick, elderly...

Perhaps unrelated, but I can see how it threatens the fragile egos of Muslim men to suddenly have to contend with the very modern notion that women are equal. Women seem to occupy a status only marginally above that of livestock. No religion, tradition, creed, or drug-induced stupor can justify this, one of many basic barbarisms that Muslim fundamentalists cling to.

I hope that it be known to the surviving families, sons and brothers of these terrorist dogs that in many cases -- a Western woman pulled the trigger, even better if she is an atheist lesbian.

Why? Because a democracy fully supports the individual's right to live whatever way they want to live their lives, provide it does not infringe or detract from the rights and freedoms of their fellow countrymen.

A democracy does not allow the religious fundamentalist to stand cowardly behind and to bastardize an ancient text that they use conveniently to interpret only in ways such that suit their particular agendas, in ways that justify their insecure, undereducated, non-enlightened little xenophobic brains.

Sure, America and many Western and NATO nation have their share of diverse and questionable religions -- however, these little factions have to get in line just like any other special interest group and lobby just like everyone else if they want attention paid to their agendas by the ruling party. This system ensures that government and policy is as representative as it can be, and that little religious tyrants and bigots cannot monopolize the time and resources of an entire state.

Not so in Islam. Take a step back a few thousand years, but add the modern weaponry and technology that only a constantly flowing geyser of oil can buy.

Welcome to a 21st century where, ironically, barbarians are taken seriously on a world stage merely because of the control they have over a globally important resource.

 

I agree that his comments were inappropriate. Its a time where we need to be stand unified and not point fingers at each other saying your sins brought upon these atrocities.

This nation does not separate itself from God. Never has, and it shouldn't. It was built on a foundation of faith by our forefathers. Look at us, we're the strongest nation in the world. Even though a democracy believes in social equality, the majority still rules. That majority says we believe in God.

"God Bless America..."
"In God we Trust" (on all of our money)
"...One Nation under God..."

At this time of war, I can't help but remember the old cliche : "There are no atheists in the foxhole."

 

so I'm not gay, a little bit liberal liberal and I support freedom of choice, okay so I am sorry, I must confess, I am partially responsible for the terrorist attacks, ok?

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the crack cocaine addition I have.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lucid
[B]This nation does not separate itself from God.

 

I told you he'd need a crane to pull his foot out. I think these fine gentleman need to find a nice Monastery and live out the rest of their lives in total anonymity.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SilverFog
[B]

Well, you're right...the west is not completely secular.

 

My mother forwarded me a saved html file, here's the contents, as taken from http://www.cbn.com/ - some interesting and some scarey reading on that site.

[QUOTE]
Pat Robertson Comments on Falwell Interview
September 14, 2001

Pat comments on responses to yesterday's 700 Club.

PatRobertson.com - VIRGINIA BEACH, Va., September 14, 2001 -- People For The American Way, as has been their custom in the past, has taken out of context remarks made by a guest on my program, The 700 Club, and has given to the media a distorted view of the full context of the program.