Thanks, elanderholm -- many great points in there. After reading your post, I am inclined to take a closer look at the US involvement in the Middle East, beyond that of being the biggest brother in the NATO family that created the state of Israel.

I was not aware that Kuwait was a fabricated state, perhaps this alone indicates a gaping hole in my knowledge of the Middle East.

I think the most peaceful thing the US could do would be to invest heavily in oceanographic research to find more oil reserves, and into alternative fuels -- both to reduce their dependency on OPEC and thereby reduce their need to influence the Middle East just to help <simplification> stabilize the price of gasoline. </simplification>

Sure, Kuwait and Israel cannot be abandoned at this point, but if that is meddling enough (I am sure it is) then what LESS can the US do?

The WTC attack has pretty much indicated a no-holds-barred approach from Middle Eastern terrorists, so we can be sure that they would not bat an eye at a nuclear attack. Does a US presence in the Middle East help ensure that their nuclear capabilities are monitored and kiboshed? Could that be propaganda? Is it even possible to prevent them from developing and delivering a nuclear payload? If they can't get it anywhere near US territory, do you suppose they'd happily use it on, say, Israel? Perhaps we just keep quietly funding Israel or at least keep selling them weapons and technology at a discount... That probably wouldn't keep our hands clean enough for the extremists.

Anyway, I've digressed from discussing your particular post, elanderholm, and have gotten far enough away from the origin of the thread.

 

I will just comment on this one part. I think one thing we can do to israel is make them treat the palestinians with respect...at least the ones that live in their own country. I understand their fear, but treating them like animals doesn't make them happier. For the most part they live behind gates and fences and are abused while the rest of israel goes free. If they made this consession and still were bombed; then I would have no problem supporting them. It looks like this tragedy had some good effect, even if it may be short lived. Israel and PLO have called a cease fire for now.

 

After wading through the post here I am fearful of the effect our "freedom" is having on us. Yes, I believe in freedom of religion, separation of church and state, and freedom of speech.

These men having spoke their minds regarding an issue, have expressed their individual right to freedom of speech, and have now been made to bear the displeasure of the masses.

I do not agree with their words as spoken, but I for one defend their right to say it as they please. To compare these Christian right-wing conservatives to a right-wing fundamentalist Muslim organization bent on destruction would be just plain ignorant. Some seem to bring up "similarities" that just dont exist. The afganistan "religion" seems to be based on political power, not Godly beliefs or ideals. Like it or not, the Christian religion is, BTW it is also in the Bible that only few will believe, not the majority. "Broad is the road that leads to destruction"

What I think we are asking from Farwell is tolerance. This is the best you can get and still allow him to have the right to believe as he does.

We do not now, nor have we as a nation ever been a democracy for this reason. The masses cannot control their anger and in a whim can change things as the wind blows. They are also very easily influenced. A good example would be the news media reporting Bush wanting Ben Ladin "dead or alive" when this is NOT what he said. He did use the words, but not to mean that. I heard his words and couldnt believe the way it was changed. This is why we live in a Republic that acts slower using elected officals to stave off the hot headed mass mentality.

Everyone should calmly reflect, count to 50, jog 5 miles, or whatever they do to relax before getting worked up at each other in this time of crisis. Unity is what makes this country great, and I think we can all agree on that. Its what our enemies never expect from us.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stbrnd
[B]After wading through the post here I am fearful of the effect our "freedom" is having on us.

 

I have been reading a lot of your posts and I agree with most of what you have been saying. But try as you might, some generalizations of Islam always sneak into your posts.

You crack me up! Of course we wouldn't know if she is a lesbian because we can't ask!

[QUOTE]Democratic principles are not derived Biblically. Domestic and foreign policy is not determined by particular interpretations of Scripture.

 

In Falwells and Robertsons case I think that the profits are going in the wrong place!

Damn Aus you can't let me get away with one misspelled word?