yikes. benny, your turn....

 

lol Give me a few minutes would you!

 

By the way, I'm a Mike Weir fan myself (being Canadian, like you), so I'm not a Tiger worshipper. He is an amazing player, though, and I have no problem giving him all the credit he deserves.

His recent win is all the more amazing given the extent of his injury and required surgery to correct it.

 

1) You don't think that when they added Torrey Pines to the rotation, the PGA didn't know Tiger had already won there multiple times? Including his 3 world junior titles? Come on! Tiger winning generates viewers, sponsors and income. I will get back to his injury later. lol

2) My point about all he has ever played agains are ghosts, is in part in reference to comparisons to all the previous legends some say he is better than and the lack of major experience of the others on tour. I believe I made my case pretty well when I talked about all the greats of the game Jack and Arnie and Hogan and Snead and Nelson had to contend with during their careers. I'm sorry but Tiger just has never had to put up with players as determined to win as he is. The other players records bear this out. They either do not have the talent, the will or (in Michelson's case) the brain pan.

3) No he won because of his length...I don't know how you could even try to dispute this. The only holes he had a winning score on were the par 5's. I know he made some tremendous putts but...if he weren't on the green he wouldn't have been putting...
Also I never said having length off the tee is not part of being a great player! Why do you not just read what is written and stop trying to put words into my mouth. Again i thought I made this point very clear...Jack was a longer driver of the ball and one of the longer and best iron players of his time...but you never saw the PGA add yardage to a cours and then try to tell us "we are doing it to help the shorter players!" Come on...even the players (including seniors) have called the PGA on this and they are much more qualified than you to make this judgement. By the way, did you know that before the Masters course was lengthened Tiger was hitting club for club what Nichlaus used in his day? A matter of historical record and the focus of a golf channel exclusive a couple of years ago.

3) When I said hero worship is fine but some of us have more discerning tastes...ok there was some sarcasm there! My point simply was, Tiger swears too much, throws his clubs too often, does too many things to distract his fellow players (though not as often now). Again these are a matter of record. All you have to do is watch one tournament you will see him swear or slam his clubs and the players have already called him out for moving away from the green after his putt drops...I guess when a person of my advanced age has the opportunity to watch not only golfs greatest sportsman but perhaps all of sports and I mean Jack then, yes I could see how your grandparents and I have something in common. I believe they are called manners and respect.

4) Lol there is no doubt of what Jack would do. Young fella...I could use so many examples of his sportsmanship...how bout him picking up Tony Jacklins putt on 18 in England and not letting Tony take a chance on missing it and by doing so, allowing Europe to tie in the Ryder Cup?
You don't think Tiger influences the PGA? Come on Jack did, Norman did, Hogan did. All the greats did. Unfortunately when I made the comment about the score keeping we ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT CHANGING PGA RULES! It is the networks which post the score on tv and I am pretty sure to preserve tradition, many of the former greats would have said something by now....my opinion I know but I allow you have yours and have yet to insult you, cut you down, make fun of your age etc etc etc. lol

5) Yes I said poor group of compettitors in the majors and again all you have to do is look at historical records and this point is irrefutable. Shit even Arnold, Jack, Player, Snead (when he was alive) and just about every member of the senior tour who played during Jacks career on the PGA, have complained about the lack of competition present day players have brought to the table against Tiger in the majors...you lose this one by a mile!
Hell you got guys saying "we're playing for second now!" You never heard any of that defeatist crap in any era other than this! Hell all you have to do is look at Tigers own record in the majors of never coming from behind to win and never losing after leading after 54 holes! Even Miller who would suck Tiger off every morning has said many times "why is no one shooting a low score on Sunday and letting Tiger run away with these things?" And Johnny should know cause in the early 70's he shot a 63 to steal the US Open! Give me a break! These guys make so much cash now that most play for a cheque and not a win. And most crap their pants when they see Tiger's name on the board. It is fricking shameful and Jack, Arnold, Gary, Trevino, Watson and many greats have all said this same thing!

6) Never said he didn't win on tight courses. Just corrected a point made by someone else that he plays tight courses as well as others. Tiger only plays about 10 tour events and he plays only the ones he has done well on. I dont blame him for this. I would do the same. Every other player great or not also does the same. Bottom line is though...he doesn't play near as well on tight courses. They favour shorter more accurate drivers of the ball.

7) I am glad I remind you of your grandparents! It is too bad you couldnt have lived in the 50's and 60's when people had respect for others, trusted their neighbours and believed in working for what we got. Call us old...just don't forget who's hard work and ethics make it possible for you to live in the country and manner you do. And remember soon, very soon, young people will be saying the same thing about you!

8) You took that last one way out of context. I was responding to Kfar09 when he said the PGA was helping Rocco when they moved the flags forward on the par 5's and i said yes but they also moved most of them right and Rocco plays a draw! Nice try!

And I also never stated they set up the course to favour Tiger....I said they picked a entire fricking course that favoured Tiger! Come on! He had already won here 6 times! Do you honestly believe the PGA didn't know this going in! Tiger winning is what the PGA wants! More viewers, more sponsors, more money period.

Finally in closing I do wholeheartedly agree with your final line.
"He can flat out play golf like no one else right now." Wouldn't you love to see him play every tournament not just the majors with competition like Jack, Arnold, Watson, Trevino, Hogan, Snead, Nelson, Jones etc etc etc all had? Cause he don't got it cause they don't need to play to win no more...they play for the cash and all the way up to about the 70's, if you didnt win you didnt last cause only the top 5-10 made anything.
And Jack was great and so was ARnold and we didn't get 24 hours of them crammed down our throat by the media. The cameras didnt only show them on the course and their shots.

I am glad Tiger is out for a while again. Golf was a hell of a lot more interesting during the time he was away. We saw other players on tv!!!!
And I will reserve my judgement of Tiger's further injuries until I know more cause you would really hate to hear what I have to say about that right now!

Whew now wheres my arthritis medicine for these old decrepit grandpa hands!

 

I never said you couldnt call him a great player. He is great period.

Great players are rare but in golf there were almost always 3-5 guys who were the best and would accept only winning. During Hogan's era you had Snead, Byron Nelson, the Squire, Demeret etc etc etc.
During Nicklaus reign you had the BIG THREE, Arnie, Jack and Player.
Then with Watson you had Jack, Trevino, Miller, Weiskopf, Faldo, Ballesteros etc etc etc.
Wtih Tiger's era so far, there are no other real multiple major winners. You got Els, Michelson, Goosen etc etc. The most any of these guys had was 0-2 majors under their belts.
And the big difference I believe is when it comes right down to it, Tiger plays for the title and they play for the cheque...
He has a goal to beat Jacks record and no where near the competition that Jack had to get it.

 

Oh Benny, you are just so so so so bitter. Like how some people are bitter that Barry Bond broke Hank Aaron home run record using steroid. However, Tigers is not on steroid. It ****ing annoying how people always comparing NEW VS. PAST(OLD).

I don't know if Tiger's won because the lack of challenge, but it's not his fault(if it even is for this reason). Sometime you are so great you make everyone around you look average. Your boy Nicklaus should have been born 35 years later. You are a prisoner of the moment many years ago and that ok, but it not an excuse to be arrogant.

 

Speaking of people who have douchecannon's for a caddie. Weir's a good dude, no clue why he has such a cock gobbler on the bag.

 

Oh luckaze...you are such an ass.

Who the phuck said anything about steroids? And for the record YES Bonds record should have an asterisk...only a fricking moron would think otherwise. Lol Like they don't take medals away from Olympic athletes who use them? Come on it is common sense fool.

Don't confuse bitterness with intelligence, respect, knowledge and an appreciation of sportsmanship and fair competition, you sweet little fella!

 

Seriously, Bonds record is bull shit. He sucks.

I don't really think you can compare Woods with the previous greats. Yes technology has changed, but they are now able to make the greens faster, more breaks on the green, things like that. There are also more golfers now, and they have the same technology available to them. Tiger seems to be doing something right.

Oh and to the fact that you don't like his fist pump / celebration... I guess you don't like that the crowd goes absolutely wild when he makes those putts. That probably distracts other golfers more then Tiger celebrating.

We are all going to have to agree to disagree on this topic. Their will not be a peaceful solution. Some of these arguments are funny though...

 

And here I thought we were having a discussion!
I agree with you. We won't solve or change ideas or perceptions here but at least we see each others viewpoints and maybe consider things a little differently than what the media tells us...

It is all good and quite frankly, I am all typed out.