In our uncontrolled and unscientific survey of this board we seem to have this....

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...&threadid=69954

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Garyj
[B]

Hi Andrew,

Religious doctrine is no more fairy-tale than philosophy, the physics of light transmission, and psychology.

 

I wonder if we are not confused about what one of our guaranteed freedoms are. We are guaranteed freedom of religion in this country, not freedom from it. We have the freedom to practice any religion we want, but we must be governmentally tolerant of all others.

We don't have to agree, but as Americans we can learn much from our forefathers. They may have disputed these issues in their civil meetings, but when it came to creating a document for the future, they laid aside their differences and made room for a variety of beliefs - even unbelief.

Maybe one of the highest forms of morality is to be able to disagree on politics and/or religion, and still respect one another. There is nothing as evil as a bad religious person (a hypocrite) or a good atheist (self-righteous).

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by S2Kguy [B]

The fact is that all organized religions have their origin in basic human fear and weakness.

 

This is just my opinion, but here goes:

I do not think it is of our utmost concern to worry about what is written on our bill of tender. I also do not think our concerns should be w/ whether or not certain things should be said in school -or- in a public place. I think people worry too much about religion and do not enjoy the fact that we are free to worship as we please.

I think our country needs some major work. I think we need a national language (or possibly two). I think our military needs work. I think our higher education needs serious work. I could go on and on about things we should be focusing on, but are stuck on the little things ...

This is what I've always thought, and it's been presently clear since September 11, 2001:

We (the United States of America) are the last of the superpowers ...it's about time we started acting like one.

Again, just my opinions. (flame suit is on)

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Garyj
[B]

That's exactly what Karl Marx said.

 

Originally posted by S2Kguy
To label religious doctrine as fairy-tale is simply stating the fact, not intolerance.

To label it as "fairy-tail" is to be pejorative. You have no more evidence to substantiate what you call "fact" than what I call "fact"; perhaps you have less.

Let us not forget that it is the religious people that profess to be better when many times they are equally as bad or worse.

You make a generalization about religious people. Some may profess this, others don't, making your generalization false. As to whether atheists profess superiority, I suspect that some do and some don't.

Studied though you seem to be you are not quite qualified to paraphrase the words of the Bible, let us do that for ourselves. Secondly, it would do you good to spend more time studying the origins of these things and not their miserable translations.

Are you familiar with the phrase "leading with your chin"? I have no idea what you would consider qualification to paraphrase the words of the Bible, so I cannot say whether I would meet your definition of qualification. Neither do you know my background, so to flatly state that I don't qualify is, at least, a stretch. You suggest that I should study the original languages, without any knowledge whether I have done so or not. Would you prefer that I had quoted from my Greek New Testament, ensuring that nobody on this forum would understand? (Indeed, most wouldn't even be able to pronounce it, being unfamiliar with the alphabet.) True, I don't know the Aramaic word for "dust". I know the Greek (koniortos, transliterated).

Don't you mean that's what being a Christian means to you? Let us not forget that it is this very same God that created sin, and the intrinsic human flaw and weakness to follow it.

No, I mean that that's what being a Christian means. And I haven't forgotten.

If you're as studied as you profess to be with your oleo tranquillior post then you will know the answer to the question I have for you. Before Jesus came there were a fair number of people that lived and died?lol, where do you suppose their souls went when they died? It's an easy question really, but the follow-up is a killer. When you find said answer ask yourself the moral question of right and wrong, and if we were all given the same opportunity as they had, would we all go to Heaven?

Yes, I know the answer. And it depends on faith.

Also, I'm interested, since there were thousands of religions before Christianity, on how exactly you arrived at eliminating them all as being "the one" and settled on your present faith?

I'm unaware of any other religion in which God came to earth in the form of a man, took the world's sins upon himself, died, then raised from the dead and ascended into Heaven. Are you?

I've tried to carry on this discourse respectfully. (OK, that "chin" thing was a push.) Can you say the same?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by magician

To label it as "fairy-tail" is to be pejorative. You have no more evidence to substantiate what you call "fact" than what I call "fact"; perhaps you have less.

Is that so? Hmmm. So reasonable assumption based on empirical evidence has no more weight in your eyes than faith in nothing more than an unsubstantiated claim? OK...

You make a generalization about religious people. Some may profess this, others don't, making your generalization false. As to whether atheists profess superiority, I suspect that some do and some don't.

I'm certain that a fair number of all kinds of people profess superiority because of this or that, but it's my assertion that religious people as a whole tend to be more guilty of this.

Are you familiar with the phrase "leading with your chin"? I have no idea what you would consider qualification to paraphrase the words of the Bible, so I cannot say whether I would meet your definition of qualification. Neither do you know my background, so to flatly state that I don't qualify is, at least, a stretch.

I'm quite familiar with that phrase, and to answer your question, there is NO ONE qualified to paraphrase the Bible, you know that, don't be silly.

You suggest that I should study the original languages, without any knowledge whether I have done so or not. Would you prefer that I had quoted from my Greek New Testament, ensuring that nobody on this forum would understand? (Indeed, most wouldn't even be able to pronounce it, being unfamiliar with the alphabet.) True, I don't know the Aramaic word for "dust". I know the Greek (koniortos, transliterated).

I made a reasonable assumption based on your post that you had not studied the original languages because the quotes you use are liken to Pulp Fiction. If you want to be as smart as you sound it would do you good to study origins...not malignant translations. If you really want to know that book, study it's source without fear of what you may find.

Yes, I know the answer. And it depends on faith.

Bull, and you know it. If Jesus himself came to us all in the afterlife, proving beyond any doubt that he was the son of the one true Lord, and he preached the Christian faith in the truly special way that only he could preach, you're asserting that we wouldn't all go to Heaven? And are you then asserting that since we will not have said opportunity before we die that those souls were no more privy than you and I?

I'm unaware of any other religion in which God came to earth in the form of a man, took the world's sins upon himself, died, then raised from the dead and ascended into Heaven. Are you?

Careful, careful, I certainly am, but you miss the point. You are boldly asserting that to make a religion a viable one that the God "himself" must come to earth in the form of a man (sucks to be a female I guess), take the sins that his father created upon himself, die, and then ascend into some Heaven. What a line of bull, there were MANY thousands of religions before Christianity that had no need of a Heaven or Hell, and many worshiped females. In fact, the mother earth (where all things come from, including you my sharp witted friend) is the earliest known icon. Secondly (and most people are really not going to like this one), it's my personal assertion that Jesus sacrificed nothing (if he even existed) by virtue of the fact that he knew he was the son of God. Wow, what a sacrifice. If you knew that you were the son of God, not believed, but knew, would you do the same...of course you would. It'd be easier for most people to die on a cross than to live a good and decent Christian life anyway.

I've tried to carry on this discourse respectfully. (OK, that "chin" thing was a push.) Can you say the same?

If I've disrespected you in any way I'm sorry. I suppose I'm just dead tired of people that profess to be religious scholars with their smooth well written words that don't even know where the word "God" comes from.

I've said my piece, NOTHING religious should be public or legal.

Andrew

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by S2Kguy
[B]
No offense taken at all, no apologies necessary, but if you want to debate with me you are going to have to know what came before the Bible, not after.

 

Indeed.