"Under God," Pledging is Out - Your .02!
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From: Redlands
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay Li
[B]However, I'm sure there are many people that don't believe in the goodness of man, and if these people were to believe in a deity, the only logical choice for them would be satan.
[B]However, I'm sure there are many people that don't believe in the goodness of man, and if these people were to believe in a deity, the only logical choice for them would be satan.
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cthree, your comment made me laugh. I don't consider myself a pessimist, I think I'm more of a realist. When the good is there, I appreciate it, and when the bad is there, I don't deny it and look for the silver lining. I take things as they are, whether they're good or bad. Personally, I have more good than anyone could really ask for, but I still believe that there's more bad than good in the world.
Gary, I honestly don't know a thing about the Bible and I hardly know anything about Christianity, so please bear with my ignorance in that area. While I hope this doesn't offend anyone, if a basic belief in Christian theology is that mankind is basically bad, then why the belief in a benevolent god? Logically, the pieces just don't seem to add up for me, and I'm someone who likes to approach things objectively, not with emotion or faith.
Gary, I honestly don't know a thing about the Bible and I hardly know anything about Christianity, so please bear with my ignorance in that area. While I hope this doesn't offend anyone, if a basic belief in Christian theology is that mankind is basically bad, then why the belief in a benevolent god? Logically, the pieces just don't seem to add up for me, and I'm someone who likes to approach things objectively, not with emotion or faith.
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From: Redlands
Jay Li,
Christians see no contradiction in a benevolent God and "fallen" man. The belief is that man was not created bad, but chose bad. The question that logically follows is, "Why would a good God create a person who could incorporate bad in His world?" More directly, why would God create evil? The response is that real choice must allow for all options - including evil. If you think about it, evil must be within free choice, since it is the only opposite choice.
One thing further - the Christian view of bad (evil) is that it's root is selfishness. This selfishness chooses to exclude the Creator. Evil is killing, rape, and all those other unimaginable acts. Christians believe they all spring from the well of selfishness. Even what we think of as "good" people are often selfish.
Jay, I hope I didn't get too far afield here. This is a very short, incomplete, and insufficient answer to your questions, but may help a bit.
PS - Love your gene pool quip!
Christians see no contradiction in a benevolent God and "fallen" man. The belief is that man was not created bad, but chose bad. The question that logically follows is, "Why would a good God create a person who could incorporate bad in His world?" More directly, why would God create evil? The response is that real choice must allow for all options - including evil. If you think about it, evil must be within free choice, since it is the only opposite choice.
One thing further - the Christian view of bad (evil) is that it's root is selfishness. This selfishness chooses to exclude the Creator. Evil is killing, rape, and all those other unimaginable acts. Christians believe they all spring from the well of selfishness. Even what we think of as "good" people are often selfish.
Jay, I hope I didn't get too far afield here. This is a very short, incomplete, and insufficient answer to your questions, but may help a bit.
PS - Love your gene pool quip!
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From: beverly
well, in the realm of self centeredness, aren't we all???? I mean, I didn't sell my s2000 and buy a more economical car today to help feed those starving in the world, nor did I liquidate any other assets for those in need.
Selfishness is relative.
(I was raised catholic BTW) (can ya' tell????)
Selfishness is relative.
(I was raised catholic BTW) (can ya' tell????)
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From: Santa Monica, CA
Gary, I actually took a philosophy class this past school year, in which we discussed the possibilities of free will and evil. To make a long argument short, if someone can have free choice and make the correct choice once, then what if by coincidence, that person had the freedom to act wrongly, but just never did? I know it does not sound like a very well articulated argument in my simplified version, but the conclusion reached was that it is possible for a god to create a world with free choice, while also minimizing or eliminating evil (I think we would all agree there is an abundance of evil in the world...if there were 1 evil act and the rest were good, that alone would provide the necessary elements for free will).
Additionally, I remember watching something on TV a while back, in which Ayn Rand discussed why the world selfishness has a negative stigma attached to it, and she blamed that on the Christians, which didn't quite understand. However, after reading your point, I think I see why she said what she did.
Personally, I think selfishness is a virtue, but it is not the correct path for everyone. Many people portray a selfish person as someone who is willing to harm others for the sole purpose of self-advancement, which is a misconception, in my opinion. For someone with strict morals, I believe selfishness is the best because they will consider the entire impact of their choices instead of acting capriciously.
I am not someone who believes that I have an obligation to lend a hand to anyone, and on the flip side, I do not expect anyone to offer a hand to me. If I ask and they do, I am grateful, and if they don't want to, while I may not like it, I will not look down on someone for that, because I feel they have no obligation to do so, and you cannot look down on someone for not doing something they are not required to do.
Additionally, I remember watching something on TV a while back, in which Ayn Rand discussed why the world selfishness has a negative stigma attached to it, and she blamed that on the Christians, which didn't quite understand. However, after reading your point, I think I see why she said what she did.
Personally, I think selfishness is a virtue, but it is not the correct path for everyone. Many people portray a selfish person as someone who is willing to harm others for the sole purpose of self-advancement, which is a misconception, in my opinion. For someone with strict morals, I believe selfishness is the best because they will consider the entire impact of their choices instead of acting capriciously.
I am not someone who believes that I have an obligation to lend a hand to anyone, and on the flip side, I do not expect anyone to offer a hand to me. If I ask and they do, I am grateful, and if they don't want to, while I may not like it, I will not look down on someone for that, because I feel they have no obligation to do so, and you cannot look down on someone for not doing something they are not required to do.
