My plan was laid out in jest. I could really give a rip about repentance or any of that. I was just laying out my atheist version of the whole Christian agument of living the Christian way whether there is a god or not and being good either way as mentioned in some posts above.

This whole post has gone way off the topic of the original post about the Pledge. Obviously nobody ever convinces anybody of religion unless it is at the point of a sword or barrel of a gun.

 

Baptism, while preferable, is not necessary for salvation. Paul wrote "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Rom 10:9)" Surely Paul wouldn't have omitted baptism if it were necessary. Similarly, the thief on the cross to whom Jesus said "Today you will be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:43) was not baptized, but was clearly saved. The key is believing in your heart; merely saying it isn't enough.

 

Ah, okay...<feeling stupid>. At least you can't say you're ignorant of salvation anymore .

As for nobody convincing anyone of religion at the point of a sword or barrel of a gun...that is true to a point. Not because they are "forced" into it, but because when death seems imminent, people tend to turn to God. Why? Because when you're looking at dying, you'll grasp ANYTHING that will potentially make things easier. Hypocritical, but true. Also, for reference, no one pointed a gun at me or held a sword to my throat.

They say that many drown victims are found clutching reeds or sticks or something on the bottom of a body of water because they thought it would save them in some way (they think it's "land" or will hold up their body or something). I see a startling parallel.

 

Matt--

I find your last post absolutely unbelievable, even for you.

You've had your S2000 since Jan 2, 2001 and you only have 5,121 miles on it? Utterly incredible!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by magician
[B]Baptism, while preferable, is not necessary for salvation.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TrojanHorse
[B]This whole post has gone way off the topic of the original post about the Pledge.

 

Yes, back to the original topic...

I have no problem if someone wants to add it in there for their own purposes, but I don't like it being something that students are required to say. Looking back, I resent being made to say it when I was in elementary school, I was just too young to think about it then. However, I do know that if I refused to say it, I would have been in trouble with my teachers.

I guess the best compromise in this situation would be to have 2 versions of the pledge, but that would seem kind of ridiculous.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by magician
[B]Matt--

I find your last post absolutely unbelievable, even for you.

You've had your S2000 since Jan 2, 2001 and you only have 5,121 miles on it?

 

Touche!




(Better than saying "Hypocrite!" )

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay Li
[B]Yes, back to the original topic...

I have no problem if someone wants to add it in there for their own purposes, but I don't like it being something that students are required to say.