What do you think of this?
09-25-2008, 07:46 PM
#1
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What do you think of this?
I'm interested in what people feel reading this. I'll withhold my opinion for a while.
Note this is no one I know, but is a true story.
"I am a physician from India who immigrated to the United States 38 years ago and had been in private practice in South East Missouri for more than a quarter century.
On June 26, 2008, I traveled from St Louis to Las Vegas to attend AAPI annual convention by Southwest flight 1226. Two hours into the flight, I tried to go to the bathroom ( I take a blood pressure medicine with diuretic that makes one 'go' more often). As I was sitting in row six, I walked to the front lavatory. The flight attendant, named Lora Lee Minton, abruptly stopped me and essentially shouted at me, "Go back! This bath room is occupied, and you cannot stand here."
Shocked and dumbfounded at this unfriendly behavior, I went back and sat in my seat. Two minutes later, I saw the lavatory door opening and I got up and walked towards the bath room again. The same flight attendant (Lora Lee Minton) screamed at me, "I told you not to go to that bathroom," and started pushing me into my seat. I was totally confused at this erratic behavior, and told her that I had been taking medicine and I had to go to the toilet. I even tried to walk past Ms.Minton as I was very uncomfortable.
"I told you not to go," she pushed me into my seat! I was lost. I flew many times but had never experienced a rude and unfriendly behavior like this. Confused and not knowing what to do, I went back and sat in my seat. I saw the pilot came out of the lavatory, walked into the cockpit and closed the door behind him. Later I could use the bathroom.
The sequence of events that followed were more frightening and beyond the scope of any one's imagination. As the plane landed in Las Vegas , I was escorted by two police officers and was handed over to the FBI. The FBI interrogated me at length and for the first time, I was told that the flight attendant, Ms.Lora Lee Minton, reported that I was causing 'disturbance' during the flight. I was also told that when the pilot is out of the cockpit, no one is supposed get up from their seat, till the pilot goes back to his seat. This apparently is a federal law being enforced since 9/11 and no one ever told me, nor was it announced during the flight.
That night I was taken through federal centers for further investigation. I was hand-cuffed, finger printed and was 'processed' as a common criminal. I was told repeatedly that my background was checked and I had no criminal record. Even after checking my back ground and even after confirming it by calling my family members (Our two children that live in St Louis and Houston, Texas ) and my professional partner (urologist from Poplar Bluff, Missouri ), I still had to go through the harassment. I was dragged through Federal court buildings that night with hand and ankle cuffs, left in cells for hours before I was interrogated and was threatened repeatedly with abusive language: 'Shut up,' 'I am going to kick your ass,' to name a few. Finally I was taken to a federal detention center in Las Vegas and was ushered into a large jail cell! I spent the night in jail with 43 prisoners - most of them drug dealers and picked up at street fights!
The next day I went through processing in a federal court building and presented in front of a Federal Judge. The public defender told me that my 'case' was decided and I would be released if I pleaded guilty and paid a fine of $2,500. He also told me that I could refuse to plead guilty, contest the judgment and even could win, but could be taking a long time, cost more and might result in multiple trips to Las Vegas .
Exhausted, depressed and completely deflated, I agreed to what ever the public defender suggested and got out after 24 hours of 'living hell'.
I endured the most horrifying and traumatic 24-hours of my life for a crime I sincerely believe I did not commit. A simple statement by the flight attendant (Lora Lee Minton) in normal tone of voice that I was not supposed to wait in front of the toilet when it was occupied by the pilot, would have saved the ghastly ordeal.
I was told repeatedly by the prison guards, some of the FBI officials (not all of them were rude), the prison inmates who heard my story that the reason I was targeted was because of my skin color (brown) and ethnic background (South Asian, Indian).
When I returned home, I did not feel like lying flat and take the abuse, more so the incident involved not only me but an entire race and ethnic group. I sent my story to local, state and national news papers including all the major Indian news publications. The response was overwhelming: the news papers were very receptive; I received numerous e-mails, letters, phone-calls, sympathy and supportive cards; every one wanted me to 'fight-it-out' and 'not to keep quite and do nothing.'
I did send my story to ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) of Missouri and Nevada , yet I haven't heard from them yet, though I was told that my experience had merit. I contacted attorneys locally as well as in St Louis and was told that they were looking for proper attorneys that specialize in civil liberties cases; I was told by some that I should not have pleaded guilty and should find eye-witnesses that would testify in my favor.
During 30 years of my stay in America , I never felt so threatened nor my rights so violated as I did that fateful night. 'You are not guilty until proven otherwise', the anthem we are made to believe all the time was turned out to be not true; I was guilty until prove my self innocent. I was treated like a guilty person and was never given a chance even to tell my side of the story. Even after the incidence, I am finding it difficult to prove my innocence. I want Southwest Air Lines to realize their mistake and drop charges against me. I did contact Southwest airlines and was informed that they were standing by their stewardess and the issue had no racial profile or bias."
Note this is no one I know, but is a true story.
"I am a physician from India who immigrated to the United States 38 years ago and had been in private practice in South East Missouri for more than a quarter century.
On June 26, 2008, I traveled from St Louis to Las Vegas to attend AAPI annual convention by Southwest flight 1226. Two hours into the flight, I tried to go to the bathroom ( I take a blood pressure medicine with diuretic that makes one 'go' more often). As I was sitting in row six, I walked to the front lavatory. The flight attendant, named Lora Lee Minton, abruptly stopped me and essentially shouted at me, "Go back! This bath room is occupied, and you cannot stand here."
Shocked and dumbfounded at this unfriendly behavior, I went back and sat in my seat. Two minutes later, I saw the lavatory door opening and I got up and walked towards the bath room again. The same flight attendant (Lora Lee Minton) screamed at me, "I told you not to go to that bathroom," and started pushing me into my seat. I was totally confused at this erratic behavior, and told her that I had been taking medicine and I had to go to the toilet. I even tried to walk past Ms.Minton as I was very uncomfortable.
"I told you not to go," she pushed me into my seat! I was lost. I flew many times but had never experienced a rude and unfriendly behavior like this. Confused and not knowing what to do, I went back and sat in my seat. I saw the pilot came out of the lavatory, walked into the cockpit and closed the door behind him. Later I could use the bathroom.
The sequence of events that followed were more frightening and beyond the scope of any one's imagination. As the plane landed in Las Vegas , I was escorted by two police officers and was handed over to the FBI. The FBI interrogated me at length and for the first time, I was told that the flight attendant, Ms.Lora Lee Minton, reported that I was causing 'disturbance' during the flight. I was also told that when the pilot is out of the cockpit, no one is supposed get up from their seat, till the pilot goes back to his seat. This apparently is a federal law being enforced since 9/11 and no one ever told me, nor was it announced during the flight.
That night I was taken through federal centers for further investigation. I was hand-cuffed, finger printed and was 'processed' as a common criminal. I was told repeatedly that my background was checked and I had no criminal record. Even after checking my back ground and even after confirming it by calling my family members (Our two children that live in St Louis and Houston, Texas ) and my professional partner (urologist from Poplar Bluff, Missouri ), I still had to go through the harassment. I was dragged through Federal court buildings that night with hand and ankle cuffs, left in cells for hours before I was interrogated and was threatened repeatedly with abusive language: 'Shut up,' 'I am going to kick your ass,' to name a few. Finally I was taken to a federal detention center in Las Vegas and was ushered into a large jail cell! I spent the night in jail with 43 prisoners - most of them drug dealers and picked up at street fights!
The next day I went through processing in a federal court building and presented in front of a Federal Judge. The public defender told me that my 'case' was decided and I would be released if I pleaded guilty and paid a fine of $2,500. He also told me that I could refuse to plead guilty, contest the judgment and even could win, but could be taking a long time, cost more and might result in multiple trips to Las Vegas .
Exhausted, depressed and completely deflated, I agreed to what ever the public defender suggested and got out after 24 hours of 'living hell'.
I endured the most horrifying and traumatic 24-hours of my life for a crime I sincerely believe I did not commit. A simple statement by the flight attendant (Lora Lee Minton) in normal tone of voice that I was not supposed to wait in front of the toilet when it was occupied by the pilot, would have saved the ghastly ordeal.
I was told repeatedly by the prison guards, some of the FBI officials (not all of them were rude), the prison inmates who heard my story that the reason I was targeted was because of my skin color (brown) and ethnic background (South Asian, Indian).
When I returned home, I did not feel like lying flat and take the abuse, more so the incident involved not only me but an entire race and ethnic group. I sent my story to local, state and national news papers including all the major Indian news publications. The response was overwhelming: the news papers were very receptive; I received numerous e-mails, letters, phone-calls, sympathy and supportive cards; every one wanted me to 'fight-it-out' and 'not to keep quite and do nothing.'
I did send my story to ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) of Missouri and Nevada , yet I haven't heard from them yet, though I was told that my experience had merit. I contacted attorneys locally as well as in St Louis and was told that they were looking for proper attorneys that specialize in civil liberties cases; I was told by some that I should not have pleaded guilty and should find eye-witnesses that would testify in my favor.
During 30 years of my stay in America , I never felt so threatened nor my rights so violated as I did that fateful night. 'You are not guilty until proven otherwise', the anthem we are made to believe all the time was turned out to be not true; I was guilty until prove my self innocent. I was treated like a guilty person and was never given a chance even to tell my side of the story. Even after the incidence, I am finding it difficult to prove my innocence. I want Southwest Air Lines to realize their mistake and drop charges against me. I did contact Southwest airlines and was informed that they were standing by their stewardess and the issue had no racial profile or bias."
09-25-2008, 08:31 PM
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GPmike - no offense but I'm going to assume that by your minimal care factor of this, you are not of an ethnic backround??
I don't live in the states, and luckily am not subject to the higher risk of this happening to me here (or maybe I'm just naive) but if the story has been told exactly as it happened, I feel for the Dr. I would personally take the airline to the courts and have them pay for the injustice, however I'd limit it to only cover what its worth. Not take them out on a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
However, I guess that in the current western-world climate that we are in with terror fears etc I can see that your government would be quick to jump the gun. I guess for the "its better safe than sorry" approach they would like to take.
Ultimately .... wrong place, wrong time, unfortunate circumstances.
I don't live in the states, and luckily am not subject to the higher risk of this happening to me here (or maybe I'm just naive) but if the story has been told exactly as it happened, I feel for the Dr. I would personally take the airline to the courts and have them pay for the injustice, however I'd limit it to only cover what its worth. Not take them out on a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
However, I guess that in the current western-world climate that we are in with terror fears etc I can see that your government would be quick to jump the gun. I guess for the "its better safe than sorry" approach they would like to take.
Ultimately .... wrong place, wrong time, unfortunate circumstances.
09-25-2008, 10:01 PM
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That sucks, especially that southwest stands by the stewardess without evaluating his claims as well.
Who knows though, his story is biased... we would have to hear her side of it as well to make a proper judgement.
Who knows though, his story is biased... we would have to hear her side of it as well to make a proper judgement.
09-25-2008, 11:45 PM
#7
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I see nothing inherently wrong. We voluntarily gave up habeas corpus a while ago. . .
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09-26-2008, 03:16 AM
#8
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Well, I like this post, and find it very interesting. This stems into our rights vs our safety.
Now, of course, I am human, and do sincerely feel bad for the guy. He was indeed wrongfully accused, and yes, on paper, it sounds very wrong.
However, we need to take *him* out of the equation, and understand the issue more clearly.
A "brown" man, got up towards the bathroom at the same time the pilot did. Now, without getting PC, there haven't been too many airplane hijackings by Asians or Mexicans in recent history, so yes, profiling IMHO is not only necessary, but should be DEMANDED.
Of course you say, you're white, it doesn't bother you. Well you know what, when white boys start hijacking planes, I'll be the first one screaming "search whitey!"
So, when the guy got up a second time (yes I know, he didn't mean any harm) that may have triggered an alarm in the flight attendant's head. Sure, NOW you know that everything was fine and he meant no harm. However, the flight attendant is human, and this stuff DOES happen, so she took precautions. To me, it's not a matter of race or color, but a matter of realism. Unfortunately for "brown" skinned colored people, this is the reality, caused by a couple of crazies, in which they must suffer to keep us AND THEM safe in the skies.
Remember one thing....if the stuardess didn't stop him, and god forbid he WAS a terrorist, we would all be crying out for more security.
Sometimes, for security, you need to give up some freedoms.
Now, of course, I am human, and do sincerely feel bad for the guy. He was indeed wrongfully accused, and yes, on paper, it sounds very wrong.
However, we need to take *him* out of the equation, and understand the issue more clearly.
A "brown" man, got up towards the bathroom at the same time the pilot did. Now, without getting PC, there haven't been too many airplane hijackings by Asians or Mexicans in recent history, so yes, profiling IMHO is not only necessary, but should be DEMANDED.
Of course you say, you're white, it doesn't bother you. Well you know what, when white boys start hijacking planes, I'll be the first one screaming "search whitey!"
So, when the guy got up a second time (yes I know, he didn't mean any harm) that may have triggered an alarm in the flight attendant's head. Sure, NOW you know that everything was fine and he meant no harm. However, the flight attendant is human, and this stuff DOES happen, so she took precautions. To me, it's not a matter of race or color, but a matter of realism. Unfortunately for "brown" skinned colored people, this is the reality, caused by a couple of crazies, in which they must suffer to keep us AND THEM safe in the skies.
Remember one thing....if the stuardess didn't stop him, and god forbid he WAS a terrorist, we would all be crying out for more security.
Sometimes, for security, you need to give up some freedoms.
09-26-2008, 05:03 AM
#9
Or the flight attendant could have stated that federal law prohibits anyone from leaving there seat while the pilot is up and about...clearly she failed to do so... and if so called brown guy wanted to get to the pilot I'm sure a woman no less than laura croft would have stopped him...
09-26-2008, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by omgitsoop,Sep 26 2008, 01:05 AM
two sides two every story, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Though if remotely true, the aclu would be all over this....
100%