"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

 

well, if you're a Christian there really isn't a point to getting in to all this argument?? are you defending the cross? do you think your eloquent speech will sway a non-believer in to believing? Might actually be doing more harm than good by participating in these arguments.....

 

I don't disagree - people bash Christianity all the harder with these kinds of posts and you won't see me starting a thread about why I believe in Christ. However, if there are gross misconceptions being spewed and attacks against what I believe, then I will defend it. At least with the corrections, at least a smattering of people who are interested in knowing what true Christianity is have a chance to find out. And those readers probably could be the ones who don't post. I don't think anyone was really eloquent in this thread anyway, at least I'm not - couldn't write for the life of me in school and still can't now lol.

 

It might do more harm than good, you're right, but by the same logic, it might do more good than harm. Let's look at it positively!

Seriously, though, we believe what we believe. When challenged on it, we are duty bound to be a witness. Scripture tells us to "go into all the world and preach the gospel". If my "preaching" happens to occur here, so be it. Regardless, I think that, if anything, what most of us Christians that responded in this thread are doing is trying to rebutt some of the misconceptions (and gross errors) put forth by some members. I didn't start the thread - I merely responded to comments by other. I think that's just fine - they know they're "asking for it" when they say things, anyways. Right, steve c?

 

[QUOTE=JonBoy,Dec 6 2004, 10:25 AM] I believe - that's why/how I think it.

Only time will tell who is right and wrong.

 

Excellent post pulp350z!!

 

Pulp, the only thing you forgot was the history that goes along with each religion be it good or bad. This isn't a new concept for being status-quo. You have to remember that to a christian, the bible is the word of God. Therefore, people following the bible don't judge others, using the bible as a tool but rather God uses the bible to explain to us the rules he expects us to live by, mainly love.

I do however agree that religious rules are created by humans which use their own interpretation of the bible. The people who do this, use the bible as their evidence, not as their tool.

 

[QUOTE=pulp350z,Dec 7 2004, 12:37 PM]
Your discussion on Christianity (and self labeling as a Christian and, in some sense, self-proclamation as a spokesman for

 

Oh Boy, gonna get some things off my chest:

All this saved stuff, going to hell if you don't believe and what not is what irks me about Christianity. Who the heck do you people think you are saying someone is going to hell just because they don't believe as you believe? I am agnostic..I believe in a higher power that made the magic of this universe...but I have no idea who, what, when, where etc. and no one else does either. Math is always correct, science is for the most part as well. The bible doesn't answer a lot of things about science (not saying it lies, just that it doesnt address them).
> I know many people who are Christians and good people. It's fine to believe whatever you want. I grew up in a Christian family and I have found out what it really is.....a business. A way to keep the sheep inline and being sheep as they should..not out doing things they shouldn't. It's also a good way to get money from people by preying on their moral conscience.
> I believe that ALL religions are created by MAN and therefore are FLAWED by default (notice I said 'I BELIEVE' so I can't prove it like no one else can prove they are right). Muslims think they are right, Jews think they are right, Christians think they are right etc. Guess what, you are ALL WRONG. Not a single man on this earth knows God. Not a single man on this earth knows what he wants, what he thinks or has been to the afterlife (if one exists) to know what becometh of a man in his hour of fate. I certainly don't think he gets 100 virgins like the muslims do, I certainly don't think he sees pearly gates and gold streets like some Christians do. I don't think any of us know and anyone who believes someone that says they do is just a bloody fool.
> Ok so what is this hell crap? Haha.. if anything, hell is right here where we exist on earth. People in Iraq, Sudan, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Congo, or places of the likes....THOSE are the people in hell. My wife happens to be Jewish and they don't even believe in hell (laugh at the concept of a God that is so loving but would send someone to burn for eternity just for having the open mind of different beliefs in the absense of proof of anything....I love that). Nevertheless some of my Christian friends will believe that she is going to hell for not being a Christian...me too for that matter. How could a friend think such a good person as my wife would be sent there? Such a nice person, if any God would send her there on the basis of being Jew and not Christian I don't want to be with him anyway.
> Noah's Ark? HAHAHA ...poor lions had to sit there watching two of everything they could eat on that long boat ride without touching anything right? NOT. And how'd they keep the 2 rabbits from reproducing? Just cause there is a flood doesn't mean no sex!
> All you faith believers....whatever your religion...you have no proof of anything. You have proof of what ever the book of your religion says, nothing more. You are the cause of the perishing of many people before seperation of church and state, the cause of many wars, the cause or many ruined marriages and seperated families because of your lack of tolerance of other religions. The cause of dreams crushed and technology held back, the cause of conspirical accusations against those with an open mind and the list goes on. A good church keeps the sheep inline, teaches a moral way to live etc....but too much does it not bend for the reality of life and the constant of change ...causing much turmoil. And now their is this Passion of the Christ crap....all about the Jews and blah blah what they did. My wife wouldn't hurt a flea and certainly wouldn't kill someone (as I always here the Jews killed Jesus). That's the same as saying all white people enslaved black people. If you believe that. F You.

 

May not address all of your points but I'll do from what I can remember.

Speaking from a Christian point of view - yes, God is a loving God, however, He is also a just God. He is holy and cannot be in the presence of any kind of sin. If He were to send every single human being who ever lived and who will ever exist in the future into hell, it would be just. This stems from the premise that all people aren't good. Without the sacrifice of Christ, you must never have committed a single sin in your life to qualify for Heaven citizenship - no one has ever met this criteria nor will anyone in the future. Now, since He is a God of love, He offered up Christ to die for all man that whoever believes in Christ and accepts Him as Lord and Savior of their life, the person is justified and from that point on, begins a lifelong process of sanctification and transformation. If only one person who ever lived went to Heaven, it would be an act of grace. But it is open to anyone who accepts Christ. Regarding the transformation, it is done by God and is different for everyone. Therefore, you won't see any convicted killer who genuinely accepted Christ continuing to commit murder. The life changes which occur after one accepts Christ isn't a man-only thing, matter of fact, it is mostly God who works in the person, making him/her a better person in the image of God. After accepting Christ, one doesn't try feverishly on his own to better himself, rather it is God who transforms. If they tried on their own, they would fail every single time, it is human nature to sin. Yes, Christians still sin, but it approaches the exception, not the rule. Therefore, the "Christians can do whatever they heck they want after they claim Christ" misconception doesn't hold water. I would agree, if having a relationship with God involves only the person and not God, but it isn't the case. How many people do you know who committed to things and back out or fail?

It isn't sufficient enough to be "good" only. You have to be perfect to enter Heaven. However, with Christ, one is justified and their life changes which will occur, will bear a testimony.

Science is a faith as well. All of the fundamental beliefs, theories, and principles of science are based on faith.

Like I posted above regarding tithing and such, Christianity was never intended to rake in millions. No, indulgences and buying your way into Heaven through money is a direct contradiction to what Christ says. A dirt poor faithful Christian who offers up a nickel into the offering basket will be appreciated by God far more than some rich person flaunting a grand every week into the basket.

I don't know about some other people who profess Christianity, but for me, Christianity isn't about keeping me in line, although I guess that happens naturally, but not because I'm consciously thinking in fear about not making a mistake, etc. That sounds dreadful and miserable to be a Christian. If I was such a fair-weather Christian, I wouldn't want to have a relationship with Christ, it would be a burden I'd imagine. Christianity isn't a crutch for me and isn't for true Christians. I can see why people would think this as I've witnessed countless number of people start going to churches and start praying only when things get rough in their life, yet they are back to their old self and doing their things when "life is good" again.

The Passion of the Christ - didn't see it as mocking present day Jews. Rather, it was trying to convey a historically accurate scenery. I watched Pearl Harbor - I didn't see it as mocking the Japanese so much as a movie which tried to accurately reflect history. Obviously, the main plot was along romantic lines, but that's beside the point. Also, the "Jews" as reflected at that time, in the movie and in the Bible, symbolized and personified humanity, not specifically, the Jewish people. It would have been awkward if the movie showed African, Asian, etc. people torturing Jesus, since it is not historically accurate to put them into the movie.

Regarding acceptance of other religions - if I believe that Christianity is the right faith and the Bible says "there are no other ways to [God] but through [Jesus]", then I will believe that as well. If I start to trade and compromise truth for a bit of tolerance, that would seriously question my faith and I would question myself as well. Either I believe in something or I don't. Tolerance that compromises my beliefs, is not an option. A Christian can't pick and choose what sounds nice or feels right from the Bible, either he/she takes all of it as God's Word or denounce it altogether. No, this isn't to say, I'm going to start hating people or go on a killing rampage. That isn't what its about.

Christianity isn't a religion of dos and don'ts, it isn't about a creed which people should live by, it isn't about someone becoming a morally better person by reading up in an instruction manual called the Bible. It is about having a relationship with God, through Christ. The way I gather, most people think Christianity is just another religion which encourages a respectable code of ethics, ethics which a person must try to enforce himself and God is left out of it. To them, the only thing God did was create the universe and now, He just sits back and doesn't do anything special. To them, maybe every now and then, He "pops in" and does something that causes people to say something was a done by a miracle. God is actively involved in a Christian's life. It is a "religion" which can't be understood and appreciated standing outside the box, because without God working in one's life, it is impossible to imagine or believe such a thing can be possible. And I guess to be fair, I'd understand that. If I wasn't a Christian, I would think some of the true Christians were smoking crack. I'm trying to be as euphemistic as I can be, without trying to be offensive.

C.S. Lewis abhorred Christianity with a vengeance, and decided to prove once and for all Christianity to be a hoax. But before he could barely start writing his book on anti-Christian findings, he could not continue and found himself becoming a Christian. His book (not that book), "Mere Christianity" is a good read, as well as "Why I am a Christian" and "Basic Christianity" both by John Stott. Leo Strobel's "The Case for Christ" is also a good read. Before writing their books, all of these guys hated Christianity with a passion.

Anyway, that's from a Christian perspective and was just trying to paint the real Christianity. I'm not speaking for everyone since not everyone is a Christian, just getting some info about Christianity straight.