wow.... just wow.

Some posts back I read about gay marriage. This is the problem with this country and all countries that hide behind the bible because their too f'in scared of the social stigma that goes along with hiding behind a hood.

Put your hoods on fellas, burn a cross on a gay guys lawn and call your self a biggot, because your no better than the redneck in the Klan uniform in the backwoods of Tennessee.
Seriously if your god teaches so much about tollerance throughout the "great book" why does all that lose merit, because one or two lines say its wrong to have homosexual sex.


EDIT: that came off wrong, I was directing the previous statements to all people that think homosexuality is an abomination, and gay marriage is against gods rule. Guess what, the rest of us dont live by gods rules, we live by the rules of our particular countries, and asshats like you are either in the elected offices or voting other asshats in. Please stop this, and bring your hateful, non tollerance practices elsewhere. Except, stop bringing them to Africa, AIDS is rampant there, and accepting Christ is not the answer, condoms are.

 

[QUOTE=SiDriver,Dec 7 2004, 09:55 PM] Regarding acceptance of other religions - if I believe that Christianity is the right faith and the Bible says "there are no other ways to [God] but through [Jesus]", then I will believe that as well.

 

Dude, if the Bible told me to fly a jumbo jet into the WTC, I wouldn't be a Christian. It is totally not in line with the Bible as a whole and not in the character of God. Maybe you know alot of professing Christians who perpetuate misconceptions and hypocrisy and stereotypes. There are freaks out there that distort Christianity. Take for example, that woman who tried to sacrifice her kids in New Hampshire. She said she was sacrificing them up to the Lord. She doesn't even understand the crux of Christianity, the meaning of Christ's sacrifice, that she feels she needs to make one of her own. Yes, even Christians shake their heads at those freak acts and claims.

About threatening people into submission - for Christians, it isn't a threat, it's a reality. Do you think Christians get brownie points for "converting" people, heck no! Maybe you think Christians use those tactics to win favor for God, if so, that is another misconception. "Converted" sounds bleak and forced and that isn't what its intended to be. If we had faith and believed sincerely that there was a hell, would you rather Christians try to euphemize it or tell it to people straight? If there was a fire in the house and you knew about it, would you tell others to take your time, get out if you want or tell them with urgency to get the heck out? I respect your position on not agreeing that Christians should be intolerant. You mock them, but you should mock the ones who are tolerant yet are "hypocritical" to their faith, even harder. Yes, Christians should be intolerant to other faiths, but that does not mean we will go out kill others, cut peoples heads off, shoot women in the head, attack gays/lesbians. Yes, Christians won't stand for ideals such as gay unions, premarital sex, polygamy, etc, but we're not going to go out start wars, commit genocide or murder an entire group of people because they don't agree with Christ's teachings. The Bible teaches to love one another and that is the motive behind all genuine Christians' actions, not hate, pride, "holier than thou" or the like. Hate the sin, not the person.

I can't speak for all evangelists, but for every one of those failure stories you hear about, many more are positive. Not positive for your ideals perhaps, but positive in that their lives have meaning and joy and they learn to be content and thankful in all circumstances, their lives transformed by Christ. Like I've said before, the number of churches that are Biblical and truthful to the faith are dwindling in numbers. The Bible says there will be famine of God's Word in the last days and it's true. Charismatic preachers like Benny Hinn and Peter Popoff preach heretical words people's ears are itching to hear. They make promises and when they fall through, it gives people ammo to denounce Christianity all the more. Even more heretical "preachers" have been popping out of the blue recently. They promise you that if you pray every day, God will keep you healthy and you will never be sick - please.

And like I said, I don't start threads on Christianity or religion and won't, I'm just replying and trying to explain why Christians believe what they do. So, don't regard my posts as attacks and think I'm trying to incite a flame war on religions. If I said less, then I'd be half-assing what I'm trying to say. No hard feelings on anyone.

 

[QUOTE=SiDriver,Dec 7 2004, 07:55 PM]
Science is a faith as well.

 

Many scientific principles are built on others, which are built on others, etc. But when you get down to the basics and the fundamentals, you are placing your faith that your foundation is solid. It seems it fits well with the first part of the third definition.

Also from the American Heritage dictionary -

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trust-worthiness of a person, an idea, or a thing.
.............

 

Dear friends,

As you can see by the remarks of this thread there are many interpretations to the "Truth".

JonBoy and SiDriver, you can have God in your life, nobody can take that away from you, and who would want to? No practice of faith should ask you to give up anything that you feel is an aid to your personal awakening and understanding. I believe that the face of "God" (used in an allegorical context) is found in everything, all people, all animals, all minerals, all molecules, every drop of water,every breath, every atom. "God" is. "God" is. "God" is...
To look at yourself as a "child of God" is a perfectly acceptable way to see yourself as a part of the "whole" or the "Source" or the "Divine Consciousness." However you see yourself is completely acceptable, there is no right way except to be true to yourself. The "Holy Spirit" is perhaps the door to understanding the concept of "Mindfulness" in Buddhism. To be filled with the Holy Spirit is to completely aware of the presence of "God" in your whole being, there is no separation. In Buddhism to be "mindful" is to lose the sense of "self", and be aware of our "being" as being of the "Source." I have had serious dialogue with people of numerous faiths and have found that all experience "God" in a personal, but universal way. Looking4answers, I am struggling to put it into words the understanding I have. It is beyond my capabilities to describe, however, once made aware, each of us could not imagine how we could have ever thought otherwise. It doesn't just change opinions, it changes worlds.

It is this universal experience that has lead to the development of all faiths and denominations within those faiths. Whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or Wiccan, it makes no difference. To each individual, the experience of awakening is as true and valid as anyone else's. Where we run into difficulty is when one person or group tries to define this "awakening" for another, as we can see here on this thread and throughout our society.

As far as the salvation principle in Christianity, looking back on my experience within the Christian community, I today see it in a completely different light. JonBoy and SiDriver, it is perhaps in this area where we have the most controversy in the Christian community. From my awakening experience I cannot imagine a God as portrayed in the Bible, a God that rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, based on the the premise that as a jealous god needs to be worshiped in a particular way. It seems to me that many Christians, without realizing it, actually worship the "Word of God" as expressed in the Bible, and instead of looking beyond the literal, cling to it as if it was some type of lifejacket. From all that I have read of Jesus, he had absolutely no concern for writing anything down, he relied on us to experience our own Truth. Paul, on the other hand, was obsessed with words, thus much of the New Testament could be described as the Book of Paul.

With Buddhism, (and I by no means think Buddhism is the end all and be all) the teachings are completely opposite. One of Buddha's concerns was that people would lose this understanding. One of the great teachings is that "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." This is to remind us not to treat our symbols as if they were the realities they symbolize. In other words, "Don't mistake the reflection of the moon for the moon."

For many of us, Buddha would probably tell us to quit digging, we are all ready here.

Gassho,

Zeniac

 

One glaring mistake in your post - God doesn't teach us to be tolerant. Ever. Tolerance is not something the Bible teaches. Christians cannot and should not condone sin. Period. They can be tolerant in that they don't need to go to every person in the world and detail their shortcomings, perhaps, but by no means does the Bible tell us to be tolerant. Quite the contrary.

Sorry, but your post was just a mixup of illogical logic. Why would we believe something passionately, yet throw out "a few lines" for the sake of "tolerance" or fitting in with people that really don't give a hoot what we think? That's silly. It's also more than one or two lines, but whatever...

 

Please note definition 2: "firm belief in something for which there is no proof"

That's science right there. I'm a Christian - I'm also an engineer. Believe me, ultimately there is no proof for science. It's a circular premise - everything is based on something taken to be true but ultimately unprovable.

 

You obviously differ from myself in your beliefs.

Let me ask you a simple question - who knows best, you or your child(ren)?

I warrant you will say "Me, cause I'm their parent - I have more understanding".

God's our parent. He knows best. Not only does He know what will best prosper us in every way, but He has a way of doing it. Worship is included in that. That's why there is a prescribed way to have a relationship with God (to a point). That's why there are things that are required of us. That's why there are absolutes. That's why you can't just "worship" or have a relationship with God in any way you want.

You may not be able to imagine a God the way He is portrayed in the Bible - that's up to you. What I say to you, then, is that you serve a different God than I. We can't be serving the same one if we ignore what He has given us to testify of Him.

Anyways, I've said quite enough in this thread. I'll try and back out peacefully from here on...

 

On a side note, are we having PM probs again? PM link says "PMs FULL."