idlew1ld

Hello every one i would like to say that if any of you have any question regarding tuning of a sound system i have about 15 years of experience doing really high end home and car system

I hear a lot of guys saying they never got the result they wanted from a trunk mounted enclosure and i can tell you why you are not getting that result

Many guys install a sub and do them by "hear" and i can tell you that even with the experience i have i cannot get the phase even in the ball park by hears

The right way to do it is with a rta and it does not have to cost a fortune to own one you can just go and download room eq wizard and you just need a laptop a sound card and a 60$ rta mike

Adjusting the phase of the sub is the most least expensive mod that will give you guys the best return on your investment

If you only have a 0 -180 phase switch on your amp that is ok you still have the distance adjustment call "time delay" in your deck we will do it with that

Normally the time delay feature can be used by using the distance calculation but it does not work like that for sub stage and you cannot look at it this way

You will notice that the end distance you will use as noting to do with the actual distance its at and that's ok its just like that and this method is the right way to do it

The procedure goes as follow use a rta run the sweeps balance the sub so its equal volume to the mids now this is an important step if you don't do this you will have problem to see the big cancellation step i am about to show you about

Now look at the crossover region (user selected) between the front stage and sub stage

Now raise the phase or "time delay" in your head unit until you reach the loudest point at the selected crossover region then go back and flip the phase 0-180 deg switch on the amp now you should see massive cancellation at the crossover point then you know you have reach the in phase setting for the system

You will immediately notice that the bass now feels as if it is in the coming from the front with the rest of the speaker also keep in mind that you will need to re adjust levels now as the sub stage will be louder then before

Your mid can now blend in and disappear and sound like one unit you will also notice that you hear more detail in the mid bass because there is no more cancellation caused by the sub

Keep in mind that having the right volume balance between both afteward is very important and that the sub stage should not be higher then 6 db compared to the front stage for best blending possible

Hope this help!

yamahaSHO

I've used REW (mostly for home audio) and all types of other equipment to 'flatten' out sound and addjust delay, phase, etc and I still find that I get, what I think to sound best, but using my ears. The annyoing part is that on my Pioneer Elite A/V receiver, you can't adjust sound without test tones; I'd rather adjust it by listening to the source instead of continuously going through the menu and back (it's really a pain when your receiver is in another room).

idlew1ld

I know where your coming from and what i will say is this

Wen doing eq it is easy to over do it and there is several technique that needs to be done in order to get the sound good and allot of it comes from years of experience also wen you find some one with allot of experience and look at them do it you will notice that they remove more than they add and also they do not try and force something that is not there and we also do not seek a perfect curves

There are allot of house curves that can be implemented wile keeping the front stage flat for precision purpose

by pre assigning a house curve with special base tuning you still keep it precise because there is no more then 3 db variance between octaves wile giving you that hump you seek and keeping the rest in line

Also the flat curve is something that needs to be used in a control environment like studio for recording and fully treated room but it is not something that will appeal most guys in a home environment setup

Also the equipment needed to extract maximum resolution using that flat curve is not something normal guys are willing to spend

I just redid my 2 channel system in my reference room and my 2 speakers for music with both amp cost me 26k they are jbl m2

It took me 5 years to understand the ART of tuning it was a long and hard journey because you need to understand room resonance and acoustic treatment in order to achieve that perfect eq with the less possible filters but i can tell you that the end result is absolutely amazing and if you ever get to hear a setup like this you will be floored and be marked by this forever it is that impressive!!!

In my dedicated room i have a dedicated theater setup and a dedicated 2 Chan rig i also use a commercial equipment and commercial projector with a cinema scope screen measuring 172 inches wide and a dedicated baffle wall for the theater system

I am ruining jbl pro cinema (X curve tuning) horn speaker ( 6 15" for lcr 4 18" sub) 8 surround (10") and 12 amp system all pro gear and complete active setup

It is my 7th custom room (all fully treated) and even tho i have 150k into this one i do not regret it at all and i am addicted to this as much as i am with cars

As you can see everything have a specific curve so you really cannot have a system that does both perfectly as the requirement for placement are not the same

But just to get back to the phase adjustment it impossible to do it by hear because wen you will find that setting and adding an extra foot will put you out of phase

You can use this as a basic and then tune to your hears to what you like but i can grantee you that even with your own preference and settings you will gain a lot more by having the speaker system be in phase

Phase adjustment is the basics of tuning it is the first step and if you never got it right that is probably the reason you where having problem with your setups
Especially a flat system that is out of phase you will have no base what so ever and also take note that i measured many home receiver auto tune setting and there phase setting where incorrect via my rta setup (750$ mike calibrated yearly)

Don't get discouraged about your tuning experience you need to be very patient and keep at it and also you should try and get your info from good valid source and not rely on the forums as they have a lots of disinformation on them

take care

yamahaSHO

I've been doing the 'tuning' for years now. I have always found I get a better sound, or a sound I prefer by using my ear. I've made the response perfectly flat in my room with 'tuning' and didn't like the sound at all.

idlew1ld

[quote name='yamahaSHO' timestamp='1394349696' post='23053596']
I've been doing the 'tuning' for years now. I have always found I get a better sound, or a sound I prefer by using my ear. I've made the response perfectly flat in my room with 'tuning' and didn't like the sound at all.


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I think every one is not catching what I was trying to say in the previous post

Flat is not something most guys like and the room requirement for it to work nicely are hard to achieve

What I was saying is that I normally tune a house curve to what I like but while doing it I clean up the curve so it is as precise as possible while giving the end result that my EARS prefer

I am not saying you look at a graph and tune like this no you always have to use your ears to confirm the sound and make sure it is to you taste
and does not sound over process

Honestly I did this thread to inform on how to find the right in phase setup I can guarantee you that you cant do it by hear and I am willing to put money on it if you guys want me to start another thread and start going into the subject of the fletcher monsoon curves and stuff like that I am willing to do it but this isn't a home forum so I don't know how this will not be off topic

Also if you have been "tuning" for years now I don't see a single piece of acoustic treatment in your narrow room so my guess are time delay cancelation from reflected sound that arrives ms behind the original one and also massive comb filtering with good size cancelation dips I have attached a room I did to show you the acoustic requirement of a narrow room like yours that I did a few years back I also included a frequency respond of the bass to show you how the room reacted to all of this

Thanks

yamahaSHO

You're looking at the front stage before I finished it, but it appears you missed all the LinAcoustic behind the stage. I have and am aware of acoustic treatment... I already said I've been doing this for years. I have all types of graphs from my room as well, including testing the the subs I built (there are more than what you see behind the stage).