Inline Pro Engine #3 - knocking after 1 track day. It's over.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,507
Likes: 51
From: Sellersburg, IN
So the issue must have been the head all along.
Have you run a straight edge over the cylinder head surface to see how bad flatness is? Wonder if the head just got warped some after the mill, by not being properly torqued down and a slight overheat, that 2 layer gasket maybe, or some other reason?
Have you run a straight edge over the cylinder head surface to see how bad flatness is? Wonder if the head just got warped some after the mill, by not being properly torqued down and a slight overheat, that 2 layer gasket maybe, or some other reason?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 162
From: Johnstown, PA
So the issue must have been the head all along.
Have you run a straight edge over the cylinder head surface to see how bad flatness is? Wonder if the head just got warped some after the mill, by not being properly torqued down and a slight overheat, that 2 layer gasket maybe, or some other reason?
Have you run a straight edge over the cylinder head surface to see how bad flatness is? Wonder if the head just got warped some after the mill, by not being properly torqued down and a slight overheat, that 2 layer gasket maybe, or some other reason?
I plan on taking a straight edge and thickness measurements of the old head just to make myself feel better, but I already know what I'm going to find based on the results of a new head on the car.
Still curious on what for headgasket was installed before..
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,756
Likes: 1,859
This is great news this mystery is finally solved. Kudos to you for not giving up. You faced your darkest hour on this journey, as evidenced by title of this thread. But you pulled it together and dragged this to tbe goal line.
Now imagine if you had given up, sold the whole mess at a giveaway price, and you were now reading someone else post how they solved it.
Now imagine if you had given up, sold the whole mess at a giveaway price, and you were now reading someone else post how they solved it.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 162
From: Johnstown, PA
This is great news this mystery is finally solved. Kudos to you for not giving up. You faced your darkest hour on this journey, as evidenced by title of this thread. But you pulled it together and dragged this to tbe goal line.
Now imagine if you had given up, sold the whole mess at a giveaway price, and you were now reading someone else post how they solved it.
Now imagine if you had given up, sold the whole mess at a giveaway price, and you were now reading someone else post how they solved it.
Very happy that not only the head fixed it BUT my rings/bores are in great shape too. There was still a chance that I bolt all this back together only to find shot rings too.
I'm thinking about requesting a thread title change, but at this moment I do still feel Inline pro should have caught the head problems and not used some aftermarket HG.. especially since I was told "all new OEM gasket sets" were included in the "Back to 0 mile OEM refresh package". Not to mention that they should have measured the cylinder head before milling it at all. May not be a common problem I had but I would think any machine shop would verify what material they're working with before going at it.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 451
Ha, funny you mention that. There was someone interested in buying the setup but the tests/oil analysis was not confirming what I thought to be the issue.. that's what kept me going to find the root cause.
Very happy that not only the head fixed it BUT my rings/bores are in great shape too. There was still a chance that I bolt all this back together only to find shot rings too.
I'm thinking about requesting a thread title change, but at this moment I do still feel Inline pro should have caught the head problems and not used some aftermarket HG.. especially since I was told "all new OEM gasket sets" were included in the "Back to 0 mile OEM refresh package". Not to mention that they should have measured the cylinder head before milling it at all. May not be a common problem I had but I would think any machine shop would verify what material they're working with before going at it.
Very happy that not only the head fixed it BUT my rings/bores are in great shape too. There was still a chance that I bolt all this back together only to find shot rings too.
I'm thinking about requesting a thread title change, but at this moment I do still feel Inline pro should have caught the head problems and not used some aftermarket HG.. especially since I was told "all new OEM gasket sets" were included in the "Back to 0 mile OEM refresh package". Not to mention that they should have measured the cylinder head before milling it at all. May not be a common problem I had but I would think any machine shop would verify what material they're working with before going at it.
Show them this thread. Show them head measurements and/or send it out to them. Stuff happens when building engines and it's fine to chalk this one up to an honest mistake. As for their reputation in doing their best for customers, they need to own it and make amends.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,756
Likes: 1,859
The too far milled head caused the tct rattle. Its a known concern that you can only mill a tiny amount before causing chain geometry issues with this head.
Root cause of the previous motors demise appears to be running lean due to head gasket leaking.
The head gasket leaking appears to be a tag team of aftermarket head gasket and warped head.
Now the question is, why was the head milled in the first place, and how did it further warp?
Recall this was an engine that was running fine, no known issues other than around 150k miles of use, that was sent in for a refresh (in anticipation of FI). So why woild head need any significant milling?
Maybe
Root cause of the previous motors demise appears to be running lean due to head gasket leaking.
The head gasket leaking appears to be a tag team of aftermarket head gasket and warped head.
Now the question is, why was the head milled in the first place, and how did it further warp?
Recall this was an engine that was running fine, no known issues other than around 150k miles of use, that was sent in for a refresh (in anticipation of FI). So why woild head need any significant milling?
Maybe
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 162
From: Johnstown, PA
The too far milled head caused the tct rattle. Its a known concern that you can only mill a tiny amount before causing chain geometry issues with this head.
Root cause of the previous motors demise appears to be running lean due to head gasket leaking.
The head gasket leaking appears to be a tag team of aftermarket head gasket and warped head.
Now the question is, why was the head milled in the first place, and how did it further warp?
Recall this was an engine that was running fine, no known issues other than around 150k miles of use, that was sent in for a refresh (in anticipation of FI). So why woild head need any significant milling?
Maybe
Root cause of the previous motors demise appears to be running lean due to head gasket leaking.
The head gasket leaking appears to be a tag team of aftermarket head gasket and warped head.
Now the question is, why was the head milled in the first place, and how did it further warp?
Recall this was an engine that was running fine, no known issues other than around 150k miles of use, that was sent in for a refresh (in anticipation of FI). So why woild head need any significant milling?
Maybe
Anyway, I took it to them for their "Back to 0 mile OEM refresh" signature package which supposedly reassembled the block with all new OEM oversized pistons/bearings/gaskets/guides/etc etc. and included the same for the cylinder head. Thats when inline pro found sunken exhaust valves due to shoddy previous machine work on the head. That's when all of this started. I suspect I've had a too-short cylinder head this entire time which threw off timing, compression, tunes, etc. Every single time I've done a leakdown on the newly built motor, the leakdowns have been generally high, with the two middle cylinders always 20% or so. So yeah, I think the head has been my problem this whole time.
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
inlipro engine failure
Don't make assumptions. This was a 150k mile engine that I boosted at 151k. It ran great for 6-7k miles on an evans tune that entire time.
I simply decided to do a refresh of the motor as I saw/read some F22 refresh options that inline pro offered, just due to the mileage of the motor and my future plans of tracking, I thought it a good idea. This is when it all started.
Inline pro told me on motor #1, don't worry, the current tune will be fine, don't bother getting it retuned... despite them offering their own tuning services!! Motor blew for obvious reasons, I'm ashamed for not knowing better but I trusted the supposed #1 shop for F engines.
Motor #2, rebuilt this time with new(to me) block, oversized CP pistons, Inline pro rods, ARP everything. Inline pro tuned the car this time, I broke it in on their tune per their advice for about 5-600 miles. I then (with their blessing) trailered the car for a full dyno tune at evans. The pistons scored the cylinder walls so bad on the dyno the motor was blowing the dipstick halfway out of the hole at WOT. Got home, scoped the cylinders and that was all she wrote for engine 2.
Now #3 is another new (to me) block, 10:6:1 CP pistons, inline pro rod, ARP everything, evans tuned again and here we are a year later.
I simply decided to do a refresh of the motor as I saw/read some F22 refresh options that inline pro offered, just due to the mileage of the motor and my future plans of tracking, I thought it a good idea. This is when it all started.
Inline pro told me on motor #1, don't worry, the current tune will be fine, don't bother getting it retuned... despite them offering their own tuning services!! Motor blew for obvious reasons, I'm ashamed for not knowing better but I trusted the supposed #1 shop for F engines.
Motor #2, rebuilt this time with new(to me) block, oversized CP pistons, Inline pro rods, ARP everything. Inline pro tuned the car this time, I broke it in on their tune per their advice for about 5-600 miles. I then (with their blessing) trailered the car for a full dyno tune at evans. The pistons scored the cylinder walls so bad on the dyno the motor was blowing the dipstick halfway out of the hole at WOT. Got home, scoped the cylinders and that was all she wrote for engine 2.
Now #3 is another new (to me) block, 10:6:1 CP pistons, inline pro rod, ARP everything, evans tuned again and here we are a year later.
Hello
how it ended up your situation because mine is still coming out of my pocket and they don't assume anything first time was definitely the tunner with too much timing but this time Evans tuned and the car was running without any issues. cylinder walls scored in all cylinders and only noticed because after 4 track events my headgasket fail and I'm having pressure in coolant when the car never overheated and Evans turn all the safety on with aem infinity. they still blame the tunner