Novi 1500 install
Thread Starter
Community Organizer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 31,070
Likes: 566
Originally Posted by s2000Junky' timestamp='1343839908' post='21905157
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343822831' post='21904475']
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
if I go with the 1500, it isnt to get extra mid range. Might as well just get the 1200.eiter way i wanna see it done. preferably with a FMIC too.
[/quote]
92 pump with water/meth at 9:1 comp. Comptech A/C
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,044
Likes: 6
From: South Florida
Originally Posted by camuman' timestamp='1343840173' post='21905176
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1343839908' post='21905157']
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343822831' post='21904475']
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343822831' post='21904475']
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
if I go with the 1500, it isnt to get extra mid range. Might as well just get the 1200.eiter way i wanna see it done. preferably with a FMIC too.
[/quote]
92 pump with water/meth at 9:1 comp. Comptech A/C
[/quote]
if that was mine, id run max boost i can and limit it on pump gas with that compression ratio. you will need to make up for the 20 or so whp loss from 2 full points down on CR. see what i can make and max boost i can run on straight pump. id def run a fmic also and make up the loss in boost with the pulley. and i would def run a full stand alone.
i dont think that CT AC can keep up with a 1500 blower but then again i am not a fan of AC setups.
thats me though. either way i am sure its gonna make power. cant wait.
Thread Starter
Community Organizer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 31,070
Likes: 566
Originally Posted by s2000Junky' timestamp='1343840521' post='21905195
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343840173' post='21905176']
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1343839908' post='21905157']
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343822831' post='21904475']
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1343839908' post='21905157']
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343822831' post='21904475']
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
if I go with the 1500, it isnt to get extra mid range. Might as well just get the 1200.eiter way i wanna see it done. preferably with a FMIC too.
[/quote]
92 pump with water/meth at 9:1 comp. Comptech A/C
[/quote]
if that was mine, id run max boost i can and limit it on pump gas with that compression ratio. you will need to make up for the 20 or so whp loss from 2 full points down on CR. see what i can make and max boost i can run on straight pump. id def run a fmic also and make up the loss in boost with the pulley. and i would def run a full stand alone.
i dont think that CT AC can keep up with a 1500 blower but then again i am not a fan of AC setups.
thats me though. either way i am sure its gonna make power. cant wait.
[/quote]
The 9:1 compression ratio is going for it, as far as being able to run up the boost on pump, but for piece of mind I’d plan on fully maxing it on pump and then use the water/meth more as a safety buffer for further detonation resistance and the added cooling charge it provides so well, it is intended as a street/road course car. I've never been a fan of fmic with sc cars, they just aren’t efficient enough, however a 1500 capacity/boost potential could change things, that’s going to have to be tested with data logging. I already own an aftercooler set up. My multi port and single port configuration Water/meth system should provide any additional cooling I may be lacking from an Aftercooler in race conditions.
The cylinder head had a terrible leak down, so I removed it and am ready to take in for dismantle/hot tanking and reconditioning if deemed needed, it will likely stay OEM. The bottom end is getting inspected this Saturday before I feel comfortable putting it all back together. Instillation will proceed if all goes as planned within the next couple weeks and then I’ll be running the car N/A for some time to get the motor broke in. Then we get the good stuff here. I'm not excited yet, but will be when I get the motor in the car and feel good about its running.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 2
From: Eastern NC
Originally Posted by starrman' timestamp='1343698887' post='21900706
I was just talking to Chris at CT Engineering (Comptech) about this very subject...was asking about upgrades from my 1000... started with talking about 1200 and then he said they have a few cars with the 1500, did not discuss in depth, but he said they could make me the mounting plate and hook me up. Might want to call them and see what they have to say.
Good to know they have some experience with this now. Thanks for the info 
Did he say how much for the mount plate?
No, it sounded like they have a few guys with track only cars that they have made them for... I did not ask, assumed it would not be too much, since they already had the design.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,044
Likes: 6
From: South Florida
Originally Posted by camuman' timestamp='1343840841' post='21905211
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1343840521' post='21905195']
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343840173' post='21905176']
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1343839908' post='21905157']
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343822831' post='21904475']
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343840173' post='21905176']
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1343839908' post='21905157']
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343822831' post='21904475']
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
if I go with the 1500, it isnt to get extra mid range. Might as well just get the 1200.eiter way i wanna see it done. preferably with a FMIC too.
[/quote]
92 pump with water/meth at 9:1 comp. Comptech A/C
[/quote]
if that was mine, id run max boost i can and limit it on pump gas with that compression ratio. you will need to make up for the 20 or so whp loss from 2 full points down on CR. see what i can make and max boost i can run on straight pump. id def run a fmic also and make up the loss in boost with the pulley. and i would def run a full stand alone.
i dont think that CT AC can keep up with a 1500 blower but then again i am not a fan of AC setups.
thats me though. either way i am sure its gonna make power. cant wait.
[/quote]
The 9:1 compression ratio is going for it, as far as being able to run up the boost on pump, but for piece of mind I’d plan on fully maxing it on pump and then use the water/meth more as a safety buffer for further detonation resistance and the added cooling charge it provides so well, it is intended as a street/road course car. I've never been a fan of fmic with sc cars, they just aren’t efficient enough, however a 1500 capacity/boost potential could change things, that’s going to have to be tested with data logging. I already own an aftercooler set up. My multi port and single port configuration Water/meth system should provide any additional cooling I may be lacking from an Aftercooler in race conditions.
The cylinder head had a terrible leak down, so I removed it and am ready to take in for dismantle/hot tanking and reconditioning if deemed needed, it will likely stay OEM. The bottom end is getting inspected this Saturday before I feel comfortable putting it all back together. Instillation will proceed if all goes as planned within the next couple weeks and then I’ll be running the car N/A for some time to get the motor broke in. Then we get the good stuff here. I'm not excited yet, but will be when I get the motor in the car and feel good about its running.
[/quote]
very cool. car is gonna be bad ass. reason i say go fmic is cause many pro charger setups wiht blowers of this size or bigger have been done with fmic. even the rotrex blower does fmic. either way, if still keeping the injection system, unless you add timing dont run meth then, just water. meth is not as good as water at removing heat, and it will add octane and fuel that is not accounted for. again, fwiw.
trust me not hating, i want a second s2k with this blower on it lol. but since i moved 30 miles away from where my s2k is stored for the next year, something tells me neither jack nor shit will be done about that by me rofl.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 1
From: Mill Creek, WA
Originally Posted by camuman' timestamp='1343822831' post='21904475
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
if I go with the 1500, it isnt to get extra mid range. Might as well just get the 1200. This actually brings me to my next thought, which is parasitic loss on a 1500 for our little motor. Wish I could drive one to see what normal driving is like around town as well as what the power curve looks like, if it ends up being more "peaky" of a power band because the motor struggles to twist it until it starts getting into the upper mid range of rpms. If that’s the case, 1200 might be more efficient, better well rounded power curve, I don’t know
This is going on a 9:1 comp built bottom end btw, which is already going to make it feel more peaky I would emagine.
Thread Starter
Community Organizer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 31,070
Likes: 566
Originally Posted by s2000Junky' timestamp='1343839908' post='21905157
[quote name='camuman' timestamp='1343822831' post='21904475']
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
I still say do it. Just put a large bov or wastegate on it. Hell put both. Wastegate to limit top end boost and bov/dv to control part throttle surge
if I go with the 1500, it isnt to get extra mid range. Might as well just get the 1200. This actually brings me to my next thought, which is parasitic loss on a 1500 for our little motor. Wish I could drive one to see what normal driving is like around town as well as what the power curve looks like, if it ends up being more "peaky" of a power band because the motor struggles to twist it until it starts getting into the upper mid range of rpms. If that’s the case, 1200 might be more efficient, better well rounded power curve, I don’t know
This is going on a 9:1 comp built bottom end btw, which is already going to make it feel more peaky I would emagine.[/quote]
I think I know what you’re saying, but not exactly. If you’re going to reference serge lines and compressor maps, I’m going to need to see them to have any reference to what your talking about, otherwise break it down into layman’s terms please, Brad
Do you think this blower is just not going to be efficient enough over a wide enough area of the power curve to make a good choice over the 1200? I am not the first to run this blower if I do, but there doesn’t seem to be but a small handful of people running them in the community to offer up any hard data, and if there is, I havent stumbled onto it yet.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 1
From: Mill Creek, WA
I think I know what you’re saying, but not exactly. If you’re going to reference serge lines and compressor maps, I’m going to need to see them to have any reference to what your talking about, otherwise break it down into layman’s terms please, Brad
Do you think this blower is just not going to be efficient enough over a wide enough area of the power curve to make a good choice over the 1200? I am not the first to run this blower if I do, but there doesn’t seem to be but a small handful of people running them in the community to offer up any hard data, and if there is, I havent stumbled onto it yet.
Do you think this blower is just not going to be efficient enough over a wide enough area of the power curve to make a good choice over the 1200? I am not the first to run this blower if I do, but there doesn’t seem to be but a small handful of people running them in the community to offer up any hard data, and if there is, I havent stumbled onto it yet.
Now look at this compressor map from Vortech's site. Replace T-Trim with 1500 and S-Trim with 1200 when you look at the map (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...t-trim_map.gif)
Do you understand compressor maps? The surge line on the left applies to both blowers, as well as the impeller speeds. This means the drive ratios and volute shape (and outlet) are the same, but the impeller size and inducer diameter are different. The 1500 is a more efficient blower because it is bigger. However, the efficiency islands are shifted to the right, which means unless you are pushing really big boost you will actually not be as efficient as the 1200 as you would with the 1500. Unfortunately the comparison graph is missing the 1500 65% efficiency island whereas it is present for the 1200. I'm guessing it will be pushed even further right versus the 1200 for that island, which means a lower CFM engine like ours will not be in the higher efficiency islands like it would for the 1200 for any reasonable amount of boost.
However, my original comment about surge isn't true if the graph is to be trusted, they should both surge at about the same point since the outlets are the same. However the 1500 will have more parasitic drag as you noted and will also be less efficient until you really push the boost to overcome the extra drag and inefficiency at lower CFM.
I would say the 1200 is right in the sweet spot for an S2000 boosting 15 lbs at redline. Less drag and more efficient even at the start of the powerband. It would beat the 1500 everything else being equal (i.e. using the same pulley for the same compressor speed). Once you go beyond that point, the 1500 will start creeping in as the most efficient, starting at redline and working its way down until at 20 lbs you can probably safely say it will be more efficient enough to overcome the drag difference in the powerband (6k to 9k). Even at 20 psi, I would still give lower RPM response to the 1200.
If you plan to boost 20 psi though, there will be the issue of fitting that monster into the engine bay
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 7
From: Bay Area, CA
Here is some hard data. First understand that the Novi 1500 = Paxton T-Trim and the Novi 1200 = Paxton S-Trim (source http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...40&postcount=1)
Now look at this compressor map from Vortech's site. Replace T-Trim with 1500 and S-Trim with 1200 when you look at the map (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...t-trim_map.gif)
Now look at this compressor map from Vortech's site. Replace T-Trim with 1500 and S-Trim with 1200 when you look at the map (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...t-trim_map.gif)
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...pressor%20Maps
Thread Starter
Community Organizer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 31,070
Likes: 566
Originally Posted by s2000Junky' timestamp='1343856843' post='21906090
I think I know what you’re saying, but not exactly. If you’re going to reference serge lines and compressor maps, I’m going to need to see them to have any reference to what your talking about, otherwise break it down into layman’s terms please, Brad
Do you think this blower is just not going to be efficient enough over a wide enough area of the power curve to make a good choice over the 1200? I am not the first to run this blower if I do, but there doesn’t seem to be but a small handful of people running them in the community to offer up any hard data, and if there is, I havent stumbled onto it yet.
Now look at this compressor map from Vortech's site. Replace T-Trim with 1500 and S-Trim with 1200 when you look at the map (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...t-trim_map.gif)
Do you understand compressor maps? The surge line on the left applies to both blowers, as well as the impeller speeds. This means the drive ratios and volute shape (and outlet) are the same, but the impeller size and inducer diameter are different. The 1500 is a more efficient blower because it is bigger. However, the efficiency islands are shifted to the right, which means unless you are pushing really big boost you will actually not be as efficient as the 1200 as you would with the 1500. Unfortunately the comparison graph is missing the 1500 65% efficiency island whereas it is present for the 1200. I'm guessing it will be pushed even further right versus the 1200 for that island, which means a lower CFM engine like ours will not be in the higher efficiency islands like it would for the 1200 for any reasonable amount of boost.
However, my original comment about surge isn't true if the graph is to be trusted, they should both surge at about the same point since the outlets are the same. However the 1500 will have more parasitic drag as you noted and will also be less efficient until you really push the boost to overcome the extra drag and inefficiency at lower CFM.
I would say the 1200 is right in the sweet spot for an S2000 boosting 15 lbs at redline. Less drag and more efficient even at the start of the powerband. It would beat the 1500 everything else being equal (i.e. using the same pulley for the same compressor speed). Once you go beyond that point, the 1500 will start creeping in as the most efficient, starting at redline and working its way down until at 20 lbs you can probably safely say it will be more efficient enough to overcome the drag difference in the powerband (6k to 9k). Even at 20 psi, I would still give lower RPM response to the 1200.
If you plan to boost 20 psi though, there will be the issue of fitting that monster into the engine bay