Twisties with FI
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From: Westchester/Fairfield County
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I have been scanning this forum for the past month, this website has been very helpful for me as I am new to s2000's. However Im not new to tracking experience . Having owned a Viper and currently a Vette set up for time trials and time attacks, it seems funny to me that some people on here are stating 300ft tq coupled with 400hp is not a good track set up. And the ''unpredictability'' talk about turbo response does not make sense, how about the difference of 400ft. lbs tq buy moving the gas pedal by only an inch.... ever drive a vette?
My wife drives a mini cooper, she does hpde every so often. I drove her car for her 1st track outting.... that car is a dog. Sure you can mash the gas pedal early exiting the turn and it is very predictable . But that is because it is slow. I picked up a nice deal on a s2k, as soon as I replace the stock suspension with something more suitable along with tires she is going to track that car. Once she gets comfortable I am going to choose some form of forced induction. But if you guys are stating that the superchargers put out less torque (that seems strange for me being v 8 guy) than a turbo.. the decision is easy for me. Im not having my wife driving a sissy 4 cylinder with a sc that still nly puts down 230ft lbs.
My wife drives a mini cooper, she does hpde every so often. I drove her car for her 1st track outting.... that car is a dog. Sure you can mash the gas pedal early exiting the turn and it is very predictable . But that is because it is slow. I picked up a nice deal on a s2k, as soon as I replace the stock suspension with something more suitable along with tires she is going to track that car. Once she gets comfortable I am going to choose some form of forced induction. But if you guys are stating that the superchargers put out less torque (that seems strange for me being v 8 guy) than a turbo.. the decision is easy for me. Im not having my wife driving a sissy 4 cylinder with a sc that still nly puts down 230ft lbs.
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[QUOTE=Trackjunkie,Feb 22 2011, 08:33 PM] But if you guys are stating that the superchargers put out less torque (that seems strange for me being v 8 guy) than a turbo.. the decision is easy for me.
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From: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by Trackjunkie,Feb 22 2011, 08:33 PM
I have been scanning this forum for the past month, this website has been very helpful for me as I am new to s2000's. However Im not new to tracking experience . Having owned a Viper and currently a Vette set up for time trials and time attacks, it seems funny to me that some people on here are stating 300ft tq coupled with 400hp is not a good track set up. And the ''unpredictability'' talk about turbo response does not make sense, how about the difference of 400ft. lbs tq buy moving the gas pedal by only an inch.... ever drive a vette?
My wife drives a mini cooper, she does hpde every so often. I drove her car for her 1st track outting.... that car is a dog. Sure you can mash the gas pedal early exiting the turn and it is very predictable . But that is because it is slow. I picked up a nice deal on a s2k, as soon as I replace the stock suspension with something more suitable along with tires she is going to track that car. Once she gets comfortable I am going to choose some form of forced induction. But if you guys are stating that the superchargers put out less torque (that seems strange for me being v 8 guy) than a turbo.. the decision is easy for me. Im not having my wife driving a sissy 4 cylinder with a sc that still nly puts down 230ft lbs.
My wife drives a mini cooper, she does hpde every so often. I drove her car for her 1st track outting.... that car is a dog. Sure you can mash the gas pedal early exiting the turn and it is very predictable . But that is because it is slow. I picked up a nice deal on a s2k, as soon as I replace the stock suspension with something more suitable along with tires she is going to track that car. Once she gets comfortable I am going to choose some form of forced induction. But if you guys are stating that the superchargers put out less torque (that seems strange for me being v 8 guy) than a turbo.. the decision is easy for me. Im not having my wife driving a sissy 4 cylinder with a sc that still nly puts down 230ft lbs.
Why do you think you don't see very many turbo vettes and vipers on the track
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Originally Posted by Ptuning,Feb 22 2011, 06:46 PM
I think you guys are TOTALLY over thinking how a turbo operates.
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Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan,Feb 22 2011, 06:01 PM
A turbo may be spinning @ 50,000 rpm or 100,000 rpm @ 7000 depending on prior throttle position. This will change how quickly the turbo will spool an how soon you'll see full boost. Could be instant or it could be .5 seconds. This is the nature of turbo design and how it is different Vs n/a and s/c in terms of throttle response.
I'd also like to point out that a turbo is more flexible in it's power delivery. So it's all about your end goal
I'd also like to point out that a turbo is more flexible in it's power delivery. So it's all about your end goal
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Originally Posted by psychoazn,Feb 23 2011, 01:57 AM
That Viper and Vette both have instanteous response. You know when the power is coming. You don't with a turbo. Sometimes its 0.1 seconds, sometimes its 0.6 seconds.
Why do you think you don't see very many turbo vettes and vipers on the track
Why do you think you don't see very many turbo vettes and vipers on the track
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This is now my favorite thread ever... Flame on! 
My SC is sitting in a box waiting to be installed, so I can't comment much there. I can tell you that the Greddy turbo kit was not consistent.
Here's what I mean:
- Floor it in 1st or 2nd at 3k rpm, and it takes off really hard.
- Floor it in any other gear, it doesn't pull nearly as hard.
- Try to use part throttle in 1st/2nd/3rd, and sometimes it spools and takes off harder than expected. Other times it really doesn't seem to make any power. Sometimes the spool happens fast (instant). Other times spool takes several seconds, and some times boost never really seems to build at all.
- 4th and 5th didn't seem to make a lot of power.
- 6th was nice for highway passing (way better than stock) because it would spool quickly and move the car nicely.
I really enjoyed it and had no trouble taking it to seriously twisty places like the Dragon, but then I was just out having fun, not racing. When I'm just messing around, the turbo is a lot of fun because it never gets boring and can make good power fast at low rpm. But in a competitive environment I wouldn't want to have to manage the inconsistency. Also, I was very careful to only do roll-on runs within a gear to protect the drivetrain. Since the Greddy kit didn't make a huge amount of power and I've got plenty of tire out back, it never once overwhelmed the available traction. That's right, nary a chirp from the rears. Just point it, floor it, and go.
I only had it installed for like 6k miles and was still running the base map. A stronger turbo, better manifold, and tune should have fixed the shortcomings of this kit. A properly designed kit (e.g. Ptuning or Pfab or Full Race or Mase) with a properly sized turbo (5857 or GT30) for street applications, with a good tune, should be more consistent. But it would also make more power, so you'd need to be mindful of large throttle openings mid-corner. Nothing wrong with that, and I think it would be crazy fun.
My SC is sitting in a box waiting to be installed, so I can't comment much there. I can tell you that the Greddy turbo kit was not consistent.
Here's what I mean:
- Floor it in 1st or 2nd at 3k rpm, and it takes off really hard.
- Floor it in any other gear, it doesn't pull nearly as hard.
- Try to use part throttle in 1st/2nd/3rd, and sometimes it spools and takes off harder than expected. Other times it really doesn't seem to make any power. Sometimes the spool happens fast (instant). Other times spool takes several seconds, and some times boost never really seems to build at all.
- 4th and 5th didn't seem to make a lot of power.
- 6th was nice for highway passing (way better than stock) because it would spool quickly and move the car nicely.
I really enjoyed it and had no trouble taking it to seriously twisty places like the Dragon, but then I was just out having fun, not racing. When I'm just messing around, the turbo is a lot of fun because it never gets boring and can make good power fast at low rpm. But in a competitive environment I wouldn't want to have to manage the inconsistency. Also, I was very careful to only do roll-on runs within a gear to protect the drivetrain. Since the Greddy kit didn't make a huge amount of power and I've got plenty of tire out back, it never once overwhelmed the available traction. That's right, nary a chirp from the rears. Just point it, floor it, and go.
I only had it installed for like 6k miles and was still running the base map. A stronger turbo, better manifold, and tune should have fixed the shortcomings of this kit. A properly designed kit (e.g. Ptuning or Pfab or Full Race or Mase) with a properly sized turbo (5857 or GT30) for street applications, with a good tune, should be more consistent. But it would also make more power, so you'd need to be mindful of large throttle openings mid-corner. Nothing wrong with that, and I think it would be crazy fun.