Package from Bulletproof - ASM Intake
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From: West Coast
Originally Posted by AusS2000,Oct 17 2005, 07:01 PM
I think the reason this argument won't die is that you constantly make this personal. Don't tell me where 'I' live. Notice how when I comment on the intake I say "If I had bought it I'd feel like an idiot" rather than "The purchaser is an idiot". I think if you kept this to your preferences for you this would have died long ago.
On the subjects of diff and drivetrains, once again you are correct. If you drastically exceed the power of the stock engine you will strain and brake elements on your car. And if you stay NA you will be safe, simply because you can't drastically exceed the power of the stock engine.
However, suggesting that 'not making much power' is a feature that somehow justifies ridiculous price tags is the height of chutzpah.
As for other products/manufacturers with massively inflated price tags, I can assure you that if they were the topic of this thread my response would be the same. You should look up some of my comments on Mugen's $30 gold oil filter sometime.
On the subjects of diff and drivetrains, once again you are correct. If you drastically exceed the power of the stock engine you will strain and brake elements on your car. And if you stay NA you will be safe, simply because you can't drastically exceed the power of the stock engine.
However, suggesting that 'not making much power' is a feature that somehow justifies ridiculous price tags is the height of chutzpah.As for other products/manufacturers with massively inflated price tags, I can assure you that if they were the topic of this thread my response would be the same. You should look up some of my comments on Mugen's $30 gold oil filter sometime.
Some of the smaller parts like you have stated are outrageously priced. You are correct and right on with that. I went down to SuperAutobacs and wanted to buy a Mugen oilcap, right? It was $110. I was WTH? Just for a cap. I can get one for $6 at Kragen. Needless to say my wonderful wife said she would buy it so I didnt spend a dime..
To me this was just rideculous which I can see that some of you think the same on this intake... So like we said before. Its all about preference and what you want. Not a turbo VS NA debate.. 
It was a combination of a number of things and yes driver error was part of it..
Not all though..
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From: PNW
Stock parts might break on a boosted S2 at 100,000 miles but look at how those miles were spent compared to the NA S2000.
And I think the clutch and diff would last nearly the same on turbo or NA, it's all about the care and how it was driven.
And PERSONALLY, I wouldn't say a 350hp is a "low end" turbo. Sure most of the kits are powered in that range, so technically it's a low end, but that's just biting at all of those owners. 350hp is a hell of a lot more than the 200-215 it has stock. And if you're saying you weren't talking about turbos in that level, than this hole thread is pretty dumb to be comparing NA s2s to 900 hp s2s. To each their own...
And I think the clutch and diff would last nearly the same on turbo or NA, it's all about the care and how it was driven.
And PERSONALLY, I wouldn't say a 350hp is a "low end" turbo. Sure most of the kits are powered in that range, so technically it's a low end, but that's just biting at all of those owners. 350hp is a hell of a lot more than the 200-215 it has stock. And if you're saying you weren't talking about turbos in that level, than this hole thread is pretty dumb to be comparing NA s2s to 900 hp s2s. To each their own...
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by circa86,Oct 17 2005, 07:06 PM
the love of NA engines (especially for Honda's) comes from the fact that Honda stopped relying on turbo power for their cars because of it's shortcomings, i don't need to explain them because you are obviously an expert on everything turbo. and did anyone notice that honda started winning some JGTC races now that the NSX's are back to NA! honda has proven their turbo worthyness in formula 1 long ago and they are the leaders in NA technology in my opinion without question, so i say stick to Honda's great formula.
secondly, "A turbo S I think in any situation is going to out perform a NA S. Ok, let's start the argument on this one now, NA freaks
"
This statement was not thoughtout in my opinion but that doesn't matter, my point is that true car enthusiasts are looking for fun not all out speed, a 500hp turbo S2000 may be quite fast on a track but compared to a 280hp NA S2000 it won't be nearly as fun to drive. please don't try to argue against this because I truly believe this to be the truth along with many others. and as i have set before, the sharpness of an NA engine revving high is uncomparable Tuuuuuuuuuuuurbo.
i love turbo's, on cars that they were designed to be used on and on tuned cars that are built with a very specific purpose, but i don't like you at all.
secondly, "A turbo S I think in any situation is going to out perform a NA S. Ok, let's start the argument on this one now, NA freaks
" This statement was not thoughtout in my opinion but that doesn't matter, my point is that true car enthusiasts are looking for fun not all out speed, a 500hp turbo S2000 may be quite fast on a track but compared to a 280hp NA S2000 it won't be nearly as fun to drive. please don't try to argue against this because I truly believe this to be the truth along with many others. and as i have set before, the sharpness of an NA engine revving high is uncomparable Tuuuuuuuuuuuurbo.
i love turbo's, on cars that they were designed to be used on and on tuned cars that are built with a very specific purpose, but i don't like you at all.
And I agree with Aus that thiese arguments do not die because of personal attacks we keep getting. You don't have to like me circa, I'm not here to impress people online that live in other areas. Although I won't say that I don't like you because I do not know you at all.
JsAP1: you keep talking away from the straight line difference , but then you say your NSX with a 5g intake will beat a turbo S2k in a sraight line. I think deep down your thinking of straight line performence aswell, but do not want to mention it because the advantage of the turbo S is obvious. Oh and no your 5g mugen intaked NSX will not beat these turbo S's in a straight line. I'm not sure how mch hp the nsx makes to the wheels stock, but 'd bet it's around 260-270whp, while the turboed s's are making over 320whp. Plus we're lighter
.
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From: West Coast
[QUOTE=HvRRZ,Oct 17 2005, 07:47 PM] I think what you mean to say is that the Na built S2K would be easier to drive, and maybe that might make it more fun since you would not need to worry as much. A turbo s on the other hnd will probably be harder to drive, and require a bit more skill(and I'm not trying to say that NA doesn't require more skill, just so we don't start arguing about that now), and to me that'll be more fun, having the challenge and being able to control all that power.
And I agree with Aus that thiese arguments do not die because of personal attacks we keep getting. You don't have to like me circa, I'm not here to impress people online that live in other areas. Although I won't say that I don't like you because I do not know you at all.
JsAP1: you keep talking away from the straight line difference , but then you say your NSX with a 5g intake will beat a turbo S2k in a sraight line. I think deep down your thinking of straight line performence aswell, but do not want to mention it because the advantage of the turbo S is obvious. Oh and no your 5g mugen intaked NSX will not beat these turbo S's in a straight line. I'm not sure how mch hp the nsx makes to the wheels stock, but 'd bet it's around 260-270whp, while the turboed s's are making over 320whp. Plus we're lighter
And I agree with Aus that thiese arguments do not die because of personal attacks we keep getting. You don't have to like me circa, I'm not here to impress people online that live in other areas. Although I won't say that I don't like you because I do not know you at all.
JsAP1: you keep talking away from the straight line difference , but then you say your NSX with a 5g intake will beat a turbo S2k in a sraight line. I think deep down your thinking of straight line performence aswell, but do not want to mention it because the advantage of the turbo S is obvious. Oh and no your 5g mugen intaked NSX will not beat these turbo S's in a straight line. I'm not sure how mch hp the nsx makes to the wheels stock, but 'd bet it's around 260-270whp, while the turboed s's are making over 320whp. Plus we're lighter
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From: Sydney
Originally Posted by JsAP1,Oct 18 2005, 01:10 PM
Some of the smaller parts like you have stated are outrageously priced. You are correct and right on with that.
I don't really have a problem with this. There is always a cost asociated with name brands. As long as there is some functionality there as well I can live with it. But really, all you get for your $3000 on this intake is an unindentifiable power increase (maybe), and bragging rights. Forget the NA vs. FI argument, that's lousy ROI in my estimation.
The question is: "Why do these manufacturers do this?". The answer is: "Because they can!". Because people will by them. Because people buy into the lies about "SUPER HAPPY SATISFACTION POWER INCREASE!".
You've admitted the name brands like to ream us and all I'm saying is ASM are no exception.
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by JsAP1,Oct 17 2005, 08:57 PM
HAHA.. We have videos of a SC S2000 against a I/E NSX and it gets walked everytime. Yeah its SCd but its over 300hp to the wheels.. It was from a boardmember you wouldnt know because this was back in 2001-2002. Fact is it was a boosted RWD S2k VS a NA NSX. It wasnt even a match. Once it got over 100mph the NSX walked away. We all saw it..
I am talking about straight line because thats whats easiest for most to understand. If you want to talk about raw NA power lets take a JGTC NA powered NSX over an Amuse turbo powered S2000. What would you take? GT300 car or GT500 car? Both are track prepped and both have equal drivers. Who would win a 20 lap race at 5 miles a lap?
Turbod S2ks are making 280-350hp, the ones people daily drive from what I have seen over the past 3-4 years.
I am talking about straight line because thats whats easiest for most to understand. If you want to talk about raw NA power lets take a JGTC NA powered NSX over an Amuse turbo powered S2000. What would you take? GT300 car or GT500 car?
Both are track prepped and both have equal drivers. Who would win a 20 lap race at 5 miles a lap? Turbod S2ks are making 280-350hp, the ones people daily drive from what I have seen over the past 3-4 years.
As for the JGTC nsx, is it using the NSX motor??? Aren't most of the JGTC cars now NA? I think the supra are using 3.5L(drool, ooo supra
).Well as far as what I would pick, I'd probably go with the JGTC NSX( then turbo it
) over the amuse turbo S. Why? because the JGTC car would be more rare, it's probably lighter, and I can make my S just like the amuse car anyway.
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by AusS2000,Oct 17 2005, 09:04 PM
Ok, so what makes you think that the larger products are in anyway different? I can assure you that the name brand JDM manufacturers apply the same marketing acumen to their big products as they do to their small ones. Who can spell 'ASM CF bodykit'.
I don't really have a problem with this. There is always a cost asociated with name brands. As long as there is some functionality there as well I can live with it. But really, all you get for your $3000 on this intake is an unindentifiable power increase (maybe), and bragging rights. Forget the NA vs. FI argument, that's lousy ROI in my estimation.
The question is: "Why do these manufacturers do this?". The answer is: "Because they can!". Because people will by them. Because people buy into the lies about "SUPER HAPPY SATISFACTION POWER INCREASE!".
You've admitted the name brands like to ream us and all I'm saying is ASM are no exception.
I don't really have a problem with this. There is always a cost asociated with name brands. As long as there is some functionality there as well I can live with it. But really, all you get for your $3000 on this intake is an unindentifiable power increase (maybe), and bragging rights. Forget the NA vs. FI argument, that's lousy ROI in my estimation.
The question is: "Why do these manufacturers do this?". The answer is: "Because they can!". Because people will by them. Because people buy into the lies about "SUPER HAPPY SATISFACTION POWER INCREASE!".
You've admitted the name brands like to ream us and all I'm saying is ASM are no exception.
The question is: "Why do these manufacturers do this?". The answer is: "Because they can!". Because people will by them. Because people buy into the lies about "SUPER HAPPY SATISFACTION POWER INCREASE!".
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From: Sydney
Originally Posted by JsAP1,Oct 18 2005, 01:57 PM
HAHA.. We have videos of a SC S2000 against a I/E NSX and it gets walked everytime.