Greater tendency to oversteer than before GC setup?

 

I'm not sure I agree with that. I've had the H&R springs on my car which are about 3/4" lower all around and are only *barely* stiffer than stock. I thought the handling was, if anything, improved. I would think 1" lower would be perfectly fine...

Whats more, if we're talking about autocross/track use, the car needs to be that low in order to get the camber more into Hoosier-friendly territory (~3 degrees).

Its true that running too low *could* start to mess up the geometry for the worse... but I dont think that it is at a 1" drop... or at least the other benefits of being that low seem to outweigh any problems caused by it.

cheers,
jason keeney

 

the my GC top rubber bushing or hat like piece of the left front shock ripped after 16 months.....a 1/2 inch/ 2 inch outer rim piece was hanging on for dear life when i discover it while painting my calipers red.......other than that it handle great

 

Just want to chime in and say that for someone looking to just lower the car, then lowering springs is probably the solution. The Ground Control setup is great (although I have reservations about using it on stock shocks) for those that are serious but on a budget because it allows you to corner weigh the car, if corner weight is not important then I say skip the whole conversion, save your money and wait for a coilover kit.

I wish that GAB-Super R's were available for the S2000, they're wonderful on the rx-7 and the GC coilover conversion kit compliments them. But back the GC kit. I think its great, the quality is there, but the shock selection seems limited at this time. Does Tokico offer their 5 step adjustable shocks for the S2000?

cheers

W.

 

I'm running the GCs on stock shocks and it feels awesome. Corner weighted.

 

You simply cannot make a statement like that... a better statement would be that with your car and your driving style, lowering the car was not beneficial.

We run the King project SS2000 with probably a 3+ inch drop, and have consistently turned fast times at whatever track we've visited. The car is very well balanced, and a joy to drive at the limit.

The reason your car probably doesn't respond to lowering is the softness of the stock shocks. When you lower the car, you're probably engaging the bump-stops much sooner. I would remove your shocks, cut your bump stops in half, then reinstall everything with a 1" drop. The handling will be improved, I promise it.

Suspension tuning is a combination of spring rates, sway bars, damper curves, bushing deflection, tire pressure, geometry change, bumpstop engagement and droop limting. Any aftermarket kit can change one or many of the above factors... unless you are very well versed in how they all tie together, I would leave the tuning and tweaking to an expert shop who knows how ALL of the above factors interconnect. Weekend warriors and shade-tree mechanics beware... you can easily do more harm than good with aftermarket parts if you don't consult an expert.

That being said, the guys at GC are good, but they are limited in their resources because they produce parts for so many cars... their access to testing/r&d for the S2000 is limited. I would consult a shop that has done lots of S2000 work, and preferably racing, for the best results. I'm not discounting anyone's abilities, but having raced an S2000 for 2 years now, I can say with authority that the S2000 likes settings that make absolutely NO sense when compared with conventional suspension tuning logic. I talked with Carroll Smith at the SCCA Nationals about our car's suspension, and he happened to know quite a few reasons why our car acts like it does. Mr. Smith (wrote the books Tune to Win, Engineer to Win, etc.) has worked with Honda Special Projects, and consulted for a short time on the S2000 development.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Saini
[B]

...

 

O.K., let me rephrase:

"Lowering this car excessively through shorter springs/coilovers only has a clear negative effect on handling."

That better?

I wasn't trying to say that a full race setup suspension couldn't benefit from lowering, only that those who buy aftermarket springs or coil-overs and drop the hell out of there car are likely going to hurt performance, not help it. Sort of like adding heavy, incorrect offset 18" wheels that look so cool...

I did cut my bumpstops in half; still seemed to settle onto them in hard corners. Possibly even stiffer springs and/or upgraded shocks would improve the "highly lowered" handling characteristics.

My conclusions, use them at your own peril:

GC's with small drop and stock shocks = significantly improved track and road handling over stock

GC's with large drop and stock shocks = scary on the hairpins

 

And to note...

I'd love a full race custom suspension for my S2000; Custom valved Moton's, custom spring rates, custom sway bar's, hoosiers on ultra-light wheels, etc.

But the cost of just the suspension upgrades would likely exceed the cost of a fully race-ready spec Miata which would likely do far better for my (non-autocross) racing ambitions than a tricked out S2000. Adding the GC's with stock shocks was all about bang for the buck and ability to enjoy open track days...

 

Many people comment upon how underdamped the rear of the car is, but many more install higher rate springs (either straight lowering springs or GC "coilovers") on the stock shocks without, apparently, any problems.

If the rear is effectively underdamped, wouldn't it be more logical, if trying to reduce oversteer and improve predicability is the objective, to change only the rears for springs with a slightly lower rate and ride height ?

Pierre