But..but....but.....
The internet told me if I bought a CR no one would EVER be able to beat me!!

Congrats to Mark on the win.

 

While I can understand some desire to not post setup from testing, especially something like shock dynos... I think the whole secretive thing is a bit of a waste. If you get a reputation for not sharing then no one will want to help you which will just make you slower.

It seems from what I have been doing setup wise + on the boards here, that the S2000 can be fast with many different choices with the best specific one being course dependent.

Either way the car has to be setup in a way for the driver to be comfortable and confident to put it as close to 10/10's as possible.

I know for myself I prefer a car with a little bit of push so I can have a larger margin for error at higher speed entry, and then confidence getting on the throttle as soon as possible. For others this setup would be terrible and slow for them, but for me it seems to be the fastest.

 

I can agree and disagree to this statement. Yeah I'm a firm believer of sharing but if it took me a while to dial in a set up that works for me that takes me to top 5 National for example, I'm not so sure if I want to make it that easy for a newbie or a competitor to hammer me.

BTW I'm not a National Champion, just saying.

 

Here's the thing with help. It's all about feedback based on YOUR VARIABLES. Giving someone ingredients without the ability to understand their importance is just as bad as not sharing at all. And advice should be completely dependent on specific context. You can't just say "this works for me, and you should try it" you have to start with a question: "What are you trying to do, and how is your current setup keeping you from doing this". If the answer is "Go faster", then no amount of advice will benefit because it's irrelevant. You can't address a problem that can't be identified, or communicated. Sure, copying someone elses setup might be faster, but under what circumstances, what tire, what conditions, etc...

I'm a firm believer in the Socratic method, and most people are unable to provide the criteria and context necessary to help them understand their problem to get to the solution.

 

I'm glad to hear some people speak up and say there could be truth in what I'm saying, I know there is.

Nobody has really talked about the heart of it though. This is a competition, not a kids softball game where they don't keep score, it all comes down to what time you can put down on that ONE run. The driver makes the biggest difference, that's a fact. But the further you get away from stock, the more the setup CAN make a difference. I ask again, why compete in STR if you don't want this variable? (I know some answers might be "I was bored and wanted to change the car" or "thats where all the competition is going" but you still would understand tuning plays into how well a driver can do)

Back to my example, say a couple of drivers start to really win in STR on a certain setup and are very open about how they are doing it and tell all. A new guy who is eying STR and has a boatload of cash and or huge credit card limits can just jump in and copy all of this from the start. That's very true it may not suit this new guys driving (but it might all the same) to allow him to drive 10/10's. But he will be much closer from the start, without having to work for it, he may just have to tweak it but he is mostly there.

I am just trying to make the point that I might withhold certain things that I find to work for me. I guess I can't be part of the "you show me yours, I'll show you mine club". But to anyone saying they would "shun me" and "keep walking" over this, well, I think that is just internet talk. I am easy to get along with, fairly outgoing and friendly person, like many others who might not divulge everything. If you would refuse that over something like this, WHEN WE ARE COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER lol, well then maybe I don't want to interact with you anyway. But like I say, I think it's just internet talk and we will see in the real world.

The other thing is this;

Have you ever considered that setup advice that is posted or given out, may not actually be accurate or truthful? Maybe I'm just rocking the boat again

 

Let's use this then. You and your friend run similar setups, tires etc. You normally run pretty close, sometimes you beat him, sometimes he beats you and the points championship is always tight. Today you have the edge over him on this surface, this course and you have realized that running 4psi less in the tires than you normally do is making a huge difference. Do you tell him this? If you don't tell him this does that make you a jerk? Maybe it won't make a difference for him, but maybe it will.

If you don't tell him and the end of the day he asks you "how were you finding 8/10ths over me?". You could casually hide the discovery by telling him "It just seemed to work for me today". You could say "HA! it was the tire pressures, I found it and you didn't, nah nah nah nah nah nah!" Or whatever else you say or don't say. Does that make you un-sportsman like? Do you deserve to be shunned over it? Nah, it makes you a competitor, trying to do their best and win like everyone else.

 

If someone asks, I brainstorm with them and try to find the 8 tenths so they can continue to push me. I would rather find a way to improve as a driver and know my competitor gave it 100%, otherwise I'm am not truly the winner. Maybe on paper and to others, but most definitely not to myself. This is most important to me. Winning because of a setup is simply unacceptable. I do see where your coming from, that's cool but not for me. Seems like many don't feel the same way. Leave as a difference of opinion and call it a day. Continuously winning by a large margin is no fun. The first couple of times were unique, but I want a battle. I want something to shoot for. That is how I get my moneys worth. Helping another person improve is rewarding in ways I cant describe. This has also made me a better driver.

A basic setup and/or starting point is what I would like to have perfected for the community. From there it is driver preferece. Repeating some of the others on here, my setup isn't going to be 100% compatible with others. As many similarities Jadrice and I share in the setup of a car, he likes just a little more push than I do. That gets us back to my point. There will be some things that work and some things that do not. I hope we will eliminate what doesn't works for an STR S2000 to help out the community and encourage participation. Most the time I help others with a setup, we will agree on slightly altered settings for their driving preferences and comfort level.

-Marc

 

That should be a famous racing drivers quote, lol.

Seriously though, I respect that and it does make a statement. But I ask you Marc, why did you leave stock if you don't want setup to play a role? It will. Never mind driving skill for a moment, you WILL beat other drivers in the future because of setup and dare I say you will be beaten because of setup as well. It's all part of a modded class and there is something to be said about a driver making the car work best for him or herself, it's part of the challenge.

It is a differing opinion but I don't want to call it a day yet. I am enjoying the discussion

 

Even stock has setup and continuous adjustments. I also thought you would understand were are speaking in generalities, especially in the short word responses on an internet forum. I actually find the STR setup much easier to manage. Your question for me question has already been answered here

 

So did you read any of the advice in the STR prep thread? And haven't you asked questions to others in your own STR prep thread?
What if everyone told you to piss of and figure it out for yourself? Or if when you jumped into the s2000, you had to start from scratch? Wouldn't that have sucked if you had zero advice because no one was willing to share anything with you, because then you could have some kind of advantage?

Why not learn from what others have done, and then tune the setup for your own preferences? I don't understand where you are coming from at all. There is a huge knowledge base on this forum with national champions willing to talk and answer questions. That is a huge advantage, and the sharing and answering questions is what I really enjoy about this sport. Why would I want to spend my weekends with a bunch of prudes who refuse to talk to me?