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SCCA Runoffs at Indy engine problems

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Old Oct 21, 2017 | 04:27 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by usafstud
is there an existing port to install the oil pressure sensor?
Yep there is a recess under the vtec solenoid for the OEM on/off light sensor.
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Old Oct 24, 2017 | 05:12 AM
  #22  
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Congrats on INDY! That's one off your bucket list, am I right!!! The rest of us will have to settle for racing it on Forza/iRacing(?).

I had a long chat with one if the guys at inlinepro about the F-series. He was telling me the engines have an issue with crank walk due to using pressure plates with really high clamping forces. Not really sure how this could be related, as the pressure plate is bolted to the flywheel, which is bolted to the crank, so it is essentially pressing on itself, but perhaps there is a connection there. I don't have much experience with the F-series myself, only torn one down and rebuilt it once (my race cars have used EW1 and D16 motors until now), but that is what I have been told. Just my 2c to help out.
He also said that they have seen issues with any and all baffled pans, but the canton was the best one of all for oil starvation. He said their solution was to run an extra quart of oil, so for the Canton pan that's 8 quarts instead of the usual 7. Do you run an oil cooler? Perhaps there is a significant pressure drop across the cooler which is causing some starvation (if that is even the issue here)?

I hope you get this figured out please keep posting, it will be helpful for all of us (and you're not helping the enemy, I run STU, hah!).
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Old Oct 24, 2017 | 11:28 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by austincrx
Congrats on INDY! That's one off your bucket list, am I right!!! The rest of us will have to settle for racing it on Forza/iRacing(?).

I had a long chat with one if the guys at inlinepro about the F-series. He was telling me the engines have an issue with crank walk due to using pressure plates with really high clamping forces. Not really sure how this could be related, as the pressure plate is bolted to the flywheel, which is bolted to the crank, so it is essentially pressing on itself, but perhaps there is a connection there. I don't have much experience with the F-series myself, only torn one down and rebuilt it once (my race cars have used EW1 and D16 motors until now), but that is what I have been told. Just my 2c to help out.
He also said that they have seen issues with any and all baffled pans, but the canton was the best one of all for oil starvation. He said their solution was to run an extra quart of oil, so for the Canton pan that's 8 quarts instead of the usual 7. Do you run an oil cooler? Perhaps there is a significant pressure drop across the cooler which is causing some starvation (if that is even the issue here)?

I hope you get this figured out please keep posting, it will be helpful for all of us (and you're not helping the enemy, I run STU, hah!).
Yes, one item is now checked off the bucket list.

I will be customizing the oil pickup to reduce the gap and modifying the spaces between the pan baffles and other parts of the oil pump for a closer fit. I have a cooler, -12 hoses and a 2 qt accusump. It took 10 quarts of oil to fill the system after the rebuild. One problem with running too much oil, is that if the level is so high that the crankshaft starts whipping it around it will cause oil frothing. The froth can be sucked up into the pump and since that froth is mostly air it will not support bearing loads. That may have been one of my issues, since the accusump would have dumped 2 more quarts of oil into the system and eventually the pan, and it may have lead to frothing, compounding the problem.

The thrust bearings were new and the clearance was right in the middle of the tolerance. When the throwout bearing engages with the clutch pressure plate the force is transmitted through to the crankshaft. This can wear at the thrust bearings and cause crank walk. This is one reason not to sit at traffic lights or in traffic or anywhere else with the clutch peddle depressed for any length of time. Another reason is wear on the throwout bearing (also for those driving on the street, it is generally better to have the car in neutral when sitting at a traffic light and you happen get rear ended).
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Old Oct 25, 2017 | 05:00 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by s2000sccaracer
Yes, one item is now checked off the bucket list.

I will be customizing the oil pickup to reduce the gap and modifying the spaces between the pan baffles and other parts of the oil pump for a closer fit. I have a cooler, -12 hoses and a 2 qt accusump. It took 10 quarts of oil to fill the system after the rebuild. One problem with running too much oil, is that if the level is so high that the crankshaft starts whipping it around it will cause oil frothing. The froth can be sucked up into the pump and since that froth is mostly air it will not support bearing loads. That may have been one of my issues, since the accusump would have dumped 2 more quarts of oil into the system and eventually the pan, and it may have lead to frothing, compounding the problem.

The thrust bearings were new and the clearance was right in the middle of the tolerance. When the throwout bearing engages with the clutch pressure plate the force is transmitted through to the crankshaft. This can wear at the thrust bearings and cause crank walk. This is one reason not to sit at traffic lights or in traffic or anywhere else with the clutch peddle depressed for any length of time. Another reason is wear on the throwout bearing (also for those driving on the street, it is generally better to have the car in neutral when sitting at a traffic light and you happen get rear ended).
What I understood from InlinePro is that the oil pump runs such a high flow rate, it can empty the baffled area of most pans if going through long corners because the oil replenishment rate in the trap is somewhat low in that scenario. Do you plan to increase the 'trap' size and move the pickup lower? Just curious.

My understanding with crankwalk was more of an engagement issue, not dis-engagement. If you area correct, then it makes sense that high-force pressure plates would cause an issue through the throwout bearing. I didn't think of that part of the system. That being said, the only benefit to switching that I can see for a car under 200 ft-lbs of tq would be weight-related.
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Old Oct 25, 2017 | 06:40 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by austincrx
What I understood from InlinePro is that the oil pump runs such a high flow rate, it can empty the baffled area of most pans if going through long corners because the oil replenishment rate in the trap is somewhat low in that scenario. Do you plan to increase the 'trap' size and move the pickup lower? Just curious.
Going to lower the pickup. Was was going to add to the baffles to fit tighter around the pump. I will need to look further into the trap size issue.
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