We successfully competed on those tires in OTC 2004; I'm also running a set as street tires on the Miata (when I remember to swap out the RA1s).

 

Those are my street tires as well, but I'm not a big fan of them on track. RA1s for me, thanks.

 

I think everything you said in this post is correct, but I'll add to it.

If you go back and read through the posts, it's basically the West Coast/SV people saying lots of modifications, while everyone else is saying keep it stock. Why is that?

I think it's because on the East Coast, where we haven't developed a critical mass of S2K drivers, we recognize just how important it is to be inclusive and get as many drivers to the track as possible.

On the West Coast, you guys already have the critical mass, and you're taking it for granted. (I know I sound like I'm lecturing, sorry)

My belief is this: if you choose to make the spec very close to stock, then you'll get drivers and have a chance of reaching critical mass on the east coast. Meanwhile, on the West Coast, everyone will grumble about having to take out this mod and that (which they would anyway since everyone seems to have different mods), but they're gonna come out because they won't be able to stop themselves. In the end, you have a solid shot at a national spec class.

On the other hand, if you make the track whores on the west coast happy with your specs, they're still gonna grumble about the changes they had to make, and you'll have a very competitive series among 10 guys in California.

From an East Coast perspective, the answer seems obvious to me. From the West Coast perspective, I don't see how a high-octane spec series is that different from SpeedVentures-- you're not really changing anything. But if that's what you want, fine. We'll just sit over here on the East Coast and try to decide whether to get a P-car or an m3 or a spec miata as a track car so we have someone to drive against.

So my opinion: something like SCCA A-Stock rules with spec tire plus BSK. Any safety mods allowed.

Good luck! I'd love to be involved!

 

I agree that a street tire may not last longer and cost less, the point I wanted to make is that the choice of tire seems like the gateway to other modifications.

I would say that maybe some more discussion here as well as informal surveys at events are in order to hash out the WHO and HOW's of a series like this.

 

What's the ultimate goal here: High participation? Competition with a level playing field? By staying as close to stock as possible, you achieve both of these.

I think requiring $2k in suspension upgrades as the cost of entry is prohibitive. Plus, the more mods you permit, the more variance you throw into the mix, making a level playing field impossible. Stick with the stock suspension, but allow any alignment or front sway bar.

As for tires I second Stinkytofu

 

I'm dreaming here, perhaps. But I think if this were to take off nationally it would have some really great possibilities. How many of you West Coast guys would like to try VIR, Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, etc?

I'd love to let someone drive my S at VIR if they'd return the favor at Laguna Seca or one of the other West Coast tracks. Maybe it's happening more than I'm aware of, but I'm sure that getting together a group of S2000 drivers on the east coast would make it much more common.

I'm sure you guys could teach us a thing or two, and enjoy something different at the same time.

 

That's a good point. Along similar lines, what's the intended benefit of allowing variations in car configuration?

I'm not going to be participant, but if I were, a minimally modified, truly spec series (i.e. most / all parts are mandated) would be far more attractive to me.

 

Thanks for the credit but for the record, I never proposed SpecS2K; I believe it was a brainchild of drewchie and desert tortoise, and was originally envisioned as a wheel-to-wheel series.

For the current time-trial proposal, since there's no national sanctioning body implementing SpecS2K, on a national level it would necessarily be "administered" on the fly, i.e. at the events themselves, by the participants themselves. So why not just get the word out about the SV S2000 Challenge classing, and encourage anyone who goes to a track day (anywhere in the world) to compare themselves based on that?

If an S2000 wheel-to-wheel series ever develops, then a true SpecS2K class could be revisited (probably based on SCCA Honda Cup or NASA Honda Challenge). But for time trials, the S2K Challenge is proven and provides a known benchmark of relative performance.

 

I don't agree with street tires needing more skills. I have never heard anyone say to novice drivers: "start on r-tires, when you gain enough experience, then graduate to street tires". If anything, it's the other way around.

R-tires because of the ability to achieve greater speed requires much more overall attention, also require much quicker and smoother inputs than street tires.

JMO

 

I agree, to get the most out of them you have to go to higher slip angles and stay there without going over the edge. Like I said earlier, it takes more skill to drive R-compounds well (relative to other drivers on R-compounds) than it does to drive street tires well (relative to other drivers on street tires).