I feel the same way. I was always confused about the need for partial throttle tuning (unless it is running too lean). Like you mentioned, if 50% is not enough power, then apply more "fun pedal".

I'll have to admit that I have tuning envy that the AP2v2's have. To the point of sending a letter (months ago) suggesting the all or none approach that Josh is talking about. I just went about it a different way, however I'm not the type of person to be squeaky enough to require the oil.

I hear what you are saying, but with it being a timed event and trophies are given out... I'm all about driving, having fun, socializing, and winning. I see lap days at the track as all about driving. With that being said, I am a simple minded kinda guy. However, I totally respect your attitude!

-Dave

 

I would prefer that it was a rule that said something like:
- Car must have ability to run and provide stock OBD functionality w/ a stock ECU installed (does not need to be present during competition)
- No modification or addition of sensors
- Alternate ECU must plug into stock harness with no additional wiring that bypasses the stock harness (adapters between stock harness and ECU are allowed)

I can't remember if I wrote a letter or not, I have mostly been concerned with Street Prepared stuff this year.

That said, this was out for comment like 3 or 4 times, and to be fussy about it after the BOD finally approves is a bit late. At this point it's time to figure out what it possible given the allowances.

 

I would be happy with these rules

 

I maybe wrong but i thought the original proposal was sent to the bod with the original 14.10 in place which would contradict the proposal. The recent fastrack is a correction to that mistake that is being reviewed by the bod. My understanding is that they are trying to eliminate the "emissions legality" portion of the st.rules. I may have missed something here.

 

I don't know either. I just know I want equal tuning ability to the drive by wire cars and the obd1 cars. I asked evans for a update and his reply was "no updates." If your interested in the Evans unit that he is/was working on please post and say so in this thread. It might modivate him to spend some more time trying to figure it out.

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/838...#entry21181632

 

Don't confuse the ability to use an allowance with the ease of implementation...

 

Just to clarify, all S2000s are OBD2. The AP1 and AP2v1 use the ISO 9141 OBD2 protocol. The '06+ AP2 uses the ISO 15765 OBD2 protocol (CAN-bus), if I remember correctly.

 

Keep in mind your car is lighter and you have a higher redline than the 06+ cars. All cars have pluses and minuses. And as nationals has shown, both the AP2 and AP1 are possible to win with....right now, without giving the AP1 more advantages. Just because my car can tune and yours can't, who cares, they're equally competitive in the end.

The current rules are basically "If your car can tune easily and/or cheaply without likely compromising emissions legality then you're allowed to tune. Otherwise you're not allowed to tune." Keep in mind at a national level allowances are not allowances, they're requirements. The reason is that under your rules an overdog could emerge that would require not being street legal because you need a standalone ECU. Don't you think "Street Touring" should be able to drive on the street?

The point of street touring is an accessible class that can drive on the street. Therefore the rule makes sense. If you really want to tune so bad, stop making this such a "I" argument and go buy an AP2.

 

Josh you do not fully understand the downside of opening up ECU tuning to any and all options available. This current revision of the rule is perfectly fine. In a class with different cars, there is no way to create perfect parity that will enable all cars to be equal and still have a reasonable level of cost to compete.

If you allow ST cars to have any and all ECU tuning options you will just complain about someone running a full MOTEC setup that costs thousands of dollars.

Just use an Emanage or VAFC. They are not perfect but they get you most of the tuning gains you would get from other systems. There are just certain benefits to certain cars and if you want better ECU tuning, the only way to do it fairly for the class is to just buy an 06+ car.

I have E-Manage on my car and it has been perfectly acceptable to me. When Random1 beats me locally I know it is not that his car is that much faster then mine, he is just faster then me, and that is the way autocross should be.

 

This is very true. I know I've said it before but my car was 160 lbs heavier than Annie's CR on the same scales at Nationals this year. I think I would rather have a lot less weight than 5-10 more hp. I bought this car though so this is what I'm running.