Yeah, that could cause it to seize up over time. The coolant would wash out the bearings if it was mixing with oil. But you'd hear knocking and weird noises before it seized. Just having it seize up out of nowhere is weird. Unless ofcourse...you didn't know what to listen for and/or you were driving with loud music or lots of noise around you and you didn't notice.

When you say white smoke...was it cold out? It's hard to say for sure whether this was due to a bad head gasket.

If it was a bad head gasket, the coolant would have all been pretty much gone...or atleast have been low.

You'd also most likely notice a loss in power from losing compression in the affected cylinders.

Did the white smoke smell "sweet"?

How'd you determine that the head gasket was bad for sure?

 

I didn't determine if the head gasket was bad for sure. This is just my assumption since I did not have downshift/mis-shift any of the reasons they are telling me so I am trying to determine what could cause my engine to blow like it did.

It was cold start-up's on cold-mornings... what's also weird is duing idle I had a small 'knocking' noise.

When the car first 'seized' i checked the fluids and the coolant was there, but the oil was very yellow.

Another thing is that upon further research I heard over-revving the motor causes damage to the upper portion of the motor? I did not see any visual damages there when I pulled off the cover. The bottom portion where the flywheel is, (I'm assuming the crank) was sealed shut and we could not open it with a wrench. I heard 'over-revving' causes the upper portions of the motor to blow and not the bottom.

What's weird was my car didn't make any noise. I just shifted to 3rd at ~20-30mph and the car died. No warning no nothing. All I remember was distinctly seeing a check engine light and battery light right before it died. Not sure if this will relate to any of the problems.

Yes I was driving with the top down/loud music and probably would not have heard it. I had the car for 3 days - I assumed nothing was wrong and drove it normally and was actually going to change the oil. Do you think the engine seizing up is due to a pre-existing condition prior to my purchase?

I really need to figure out if this problem was prior to purchase/prove it was so that I can get it fixed so if you could please help me out it would be appreciated.

 

I would hire a lawyer immediately and figure out the cause later.

 

It probably was a pre-existing condition, but I have no way to tell you that for sure over the internet. There's really no way for ANYONE to tell you that even in person. Unless you can find the old owner and ask him a few questions. That's really the only way I can think of.

I doubt your head gasket was blown from what you're saying. If all the coolant was there and it was only smoking white smoke in the morning on cold start ups...

If a head gasket blew, the coolant is the first thing to rush into the cylinders. Then you 9/10 times lose almost all compression in the affected cylinders. So the car runs like dog shit.

Then you get huge BILLOWING clouds of white smoke (seen it happen). You wouldn't be able to see behind you when it initally happened.

The coolant would obviously be missing. It would eventually mix with the oil enough to affect the bearings, but that would take some time.

What do you mean you can't open up the crank?

Do this:
Take the car out of gear (put it in neutral), put a socket on the crank pulley and turn clockwise.

If you can turn the wrench, the only way you can say it's seized is if the crank is broken.

Are you saying that when you try to do this, the crank won't turn? Are you sure the car is out of gear when you're doing this?

When you say it won't start, what exactly happens when you turn the key? Does it make a click?

 

The crank does not budge at all when I try to turn it.


When I start the car it clicks, hear the starter engage, but no response from the motor.

I guess a head gasket issue can be downplayed then - I had the car for less then 100 miles and 3 days. I drove it to and from work; I just can't fathom how I could have a blown motor. EVEN if I downshifted wrong whatever, I wasn't even traveling more then 30-40mph.. I just cannot wrap the idea that a f1 bred motor like the f22c could blow like that without pre-existing conditions that caused it to fail.

 

I hear ya. It sounds like it was abused before or something. Unfortunately, there might not have been a way for the dealer to know about the abuse. Salesmen take in cars on trades, not techs. They start it, drive it, look at it, and appraise it to take it in. They may not have known just like you didn't know.

For them to say stupid stuff like "it was over revved" is a little outlandish. I'd ask them to explain why and HOW over revving seizes up a motor.

They probably figure AT THIS POINT that they sold you a car with pre-existing damage. But they're not going to give you the benefit of the doubt. They're not out to F$%k you, they're just protecting their assets. But they really should look at it more reasonably.

You did buy it as-is. I hate to say that. But it's true.

Even with a lawyer, it might be difficult to prove that you didn't do something to make the car seize.

It also might cost you more in court fees than it would to buy an engine if you do lose the case.

They're going to have lawyers too. So it's going to be a huge PITA. I would speak to everyone you possibly can at Honda's corporate office.

You seem like you've been stating your case to them very logically.

1.) You didn't abuse the car.
2.) You only had it 3 days.
3.) They said they inspected the car before you bought it.
4.) Even if you did over-rev the car (make sure you tell them that you didn't, though), why and HOW would it cause the engine to seize? The engine would more likely blow apart than seize if it rotates at too high of a speed. It's VERY simple physics or common sense. Something that spins too fast tends to break apart...not seize together.
5.) The car is a 07 HONDA. It's not supposed to break at 61k miles.
6.) Ask if they will honor the power train warranty that Honda has on all vehicles.

 

They are saying that 2 things determine engine seizure - no oil / over-revving.

I had oil, I didn't over-rev. Are you saying that over-revving cannot seize a motor and can only break it? Like I said, the entire car just stopped out of nowhere - no indication of smoke/noise nothing. Just stopped in the middle of 3rd gear cruising at 30mph on a stretch of road no longer then 3 houses long.

My Lawyer said I might have a case since it was implied that there was a 150 point inspection and that the vehicle I bought was promised to function to take me from point A to point B when in fact it was not ready for sale due to possible past circumstances that would make the car ineligible to be sold. It could be a case of fraud - anyways I am going to call Honda tomorrow to ask for a warranty fix since I am only 1.5k miles over the warranty and I was not responsible for the blown/seized motor.

 

Check the ecu... the dealer may not have done an ecu dump. I feel bad for you...this is whs dealers get a bad rap... if you have the "we performed a 150 point check" in writing you def have a case

 

ask the dealer to provide you a sample of the oil and send it out for analysis, costs $25 or so - See Blackstone Oil Analyzers for info, or visit any CAT heavy equipment dealer in your area for a sample kit.

Like mentioned above a mis-shift would be recorded on the pcm with freeze data that would indicate over-revs if it occurred like the dealer said it did, ask them to provide you with that proof. You would have some CEL codes on the pcm. Do that before they decide to erase everything. Protect yourself on these two points.

 

YES.

This is exactly what happened. White smoke is burning oil or coolant, either of which points to a failed head-gasket which can result in a seized motor.

When you say the oil was "Yellow" do you mean it was clear with a yellow tint or was it milky yellow? The latter would indicate coolant in the oil which would certainly cause the engine to seize sooner or later.

Out or curiosity, how much did you actually pay for this car. My guess is it was fairly cheap because they just wanted to get rid of it because they knew the Head-gasket was bad which is also why they sold a 2 1/2 year old car "As-Is"!