What are you talking about?

 

i wasnt trying top say all the 2000 changes were to make the car faster because its not, but they were made to make it easier to drive and less prone to people blowing their engines, as for people questioning my credibility, i got it from a honda article, and im pretty sure they know what their doing.

https://www.s2ki.com/home/2012/03/03...p2-drivetrain/


dont kill the messenger just because you feel obligated to be the alpha dog and know everything,

 

Your article clearly states it was not an issue with the car, but the driver. If you drive correctly it will not be an issue.

"AP1 S2000s at the time had a reputation for two big dependability issues; glass differentials, as they broke on hard launches, and mechanical overrevs from money shifts that would blow an engine. Both of these dependability issues were actually caused by driver error or abuse, but they occurred often enough that Honda saw fit to improve the system.

Two direct “fixes” were put in place, in addition to a number of other improvements beyond the scope of this article. To address overrevs, a heavier flywheel was put into the car to give a bigger cushion between rising rpm and blown engines"

 

interior\exterior colors can also be a deciding factor.

I wanted suzuka blue or white on tan..that right off the bat cut out many years.

I did not want a 00-01 because of the plastic rear window..even if they came in the colors I wanted

I did not want 06+ because of dbw and tcs.

I was leaning more to the ap1 because of the redline and how its less refined, harder to control and I prefer the front bumper design..how ever if I had an ap1 id swap the console from 04-05 and maybe door panels and other random stuff from the ap2.

I ended up with an 04 white\tan because it was the best deal for what was on the market in the color I wanted..price\miles\overall condition...it took 6 months of searching and waiting for this car to come up for sale

I would look at what you can spend. what colors you want and go from there depending on the color\year with whats on the market in your area you could end up waiting like I did.

just dont go older than 02

 

Actually, there is a VERY good reason for being able to rev the 2.2 (which I thought was limited to 8200?) to higher rpm. You want to be able to rev *well beyond* peak power rpm in order to still be up in the powerband after an upshift. Shifting from 2-3 at 8200rpm puts you at 5936rpm in 3rd, you go from making over 200rwhp at 8200rpm in 2nd to making ~150rwhp in 3rd. You'd be MUCH better off with more rpm headroom above peak power. Revving to 8500rpm in 2nd, power may have dropped off to ~195rwhp by then, but that's WAY more than 150! And when you shift, you land at 6154rpm in 3rd, where you're making ~170rwhp. Mucho better-o...

From what I've seen, AP2's make peak power pretty much right at redline, ~7800-8000rpm. There is just not enough headroom above peak power rpm with the cutoff at 8200. This is why the AP2 is no quicker or faster in the 1/4 than the AP1 despite making ~5% more peak power. It can't stay in its powerband as well.

If you could rev it to 9000rpm, better still, but at that point you are taking some lifetime/reliability out of the 2.2.

If this were true, they built the engine way heavier than it needs to be. Rotaries *do* have "reciprocating" mass, and there are mechanical limits to how high you can rev. Quick search reveals that some internal mods are required to spin a Renesis at 14k rpm:
http://rx7club.com/rotary-car-perfor...arched-573697/
>>>Shaft flex is the main factor, it causes all of the other problems with clearences etc. At high rpm the shaft starts to bend like an S due too the mass of the rotors and counterweights. This causes bad things to happen like the rotors touching the housings, the shaft touching the bearing and spining them, eathing stat gears etc.
Too counteract this you use lighter rotors, as even minor weight reductions reduce the load on the shaft at high rpm by a huge ammount. You also run large clearences on the rotors and bearings to give them room when the shaft flexes. Guru motorsports makes an E-shaft with a center bearing to greatly reduce this flex, they reporedly have a 14,000 rpm race car using this shaft.<<<

 

02/03 or CR

 

Fwiw, peak power in the F22 is 7800 rpm - redline is actually 8200, fuel cut is 8300, 500 rpm over the hill. 8.5k fuel cut would be better but it is what it is. Peak power in the F20 was at 8300 rpm, redline at 8900, fuel cut at 9000, right? Its the same overhead basically (100 rpm less) and people just round up or down to 8 or 9 k. If you ever really look closely, the AP1 tach has the 9k in the red zone, the AP2 tach with the F22 has the 8k still in white.

Also, VTEC engages around 5900 rpm but does not disengage until a lower rpm 5500 or so - F22s don't drop out of VTEC and make less power when you redline shift - but it can seem that way if you think VTEC has the same engage and disengage points, which it doesn't. One of the big things about the F22 is the revised cams - there's something like 50-60 more hp avail below VTEC (before 5900 rpm). Thats power you can use off the line and if you ever get caught out of VTEC. The only reason the AP2 is not faster on 1/4 mi and 0-60 is that there's a second gear shift. Account for the time your coasting and you can see the shift in the power band - you can see this a lot on race courses that favor one gearing over the other.

Basically, all the power in an F20 is between 6-9k, but the F22 has some of that power available sooner 3-6k, so you're not in pure Civic mode when not above 6k.


I said it could spin to 14k, not that it was ultimately designed to do so. There are aftermarket builders however that build them to 17k rpm redline. The bigger issue is, there's no power with the stock motor above certain rpm, so other than wear, there's no point to raising the redline just to do it - there should be a reason.

 

Dyno plots I've seen typically show power peak right at cutoff, like this one (did search on "AP2 dyno" images):Lower curves are stock ecu w/ K&N and catback exhaust, upper curves with tuned Haltech. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...C41E6775992F01
Anyway, the stock ECU curve looks to make peak power at 8100 and hit the limiter at 8200. Typical of stockish AP2 dyno results I've seen, peak is only *just* before the limiter, or smack dab into the limiter.

That's really my only point here. You'll get more performance out of the 2.2 if it's allowed to rev to higher rpm.

What really matters is where the limiter is. From what I can tell, 8100-8300 for AP2, 8900-9100 for the AP1. Plots I'm finding seem to show 500-700rpm more headroom above peak power for the AP1.

No. F-ing. WAY. *MAYBE* 20hp more. Certainly not 50-60!
Here are supposedly stock AP1 vs. AP2 curves. If anything, that's a particularly healthy AP2, on average there's ~15hp difference between the two below 6000:


Anyway, my *original* point was that the 2.2 is a better powerplant, IF allowed some rpm headroom. Even 8500-8600rpm would make it demonstrably superior to the F20C instead of only equal to it. Just let me keep my AP1 ECU, flywheel, and trans

Stock AP2 should have the same number of shifts to hit 100mph in the 1/4. But it's still no quicker. Because of the low rev limiter.

10% more displacement, ~10% more torque and power in the low-end and midrange, tapering off a bit earlier than the AP1, but still making peak power at ~8000rpm vs. 8300 for the AP1.


I think that adding a center bearing would be considered a MAJOR internal mod! You won't rev one to 14k without such mods.

There is a reason, I've already explained it. The POINT is that it is ALWAYS beneficial for a peaky NA engine to be able to rev well beyond peak power rpm, so that you aren't WAY down on the power curve when you upshift. You'll be able to put more power to the ground MORE of the time. And you'll be faster.

 

the 09 is easily the most appealing year to me.
I own a 2006.

and ap1s are kinda meh, the 9k redline is w/e. I like the extra torque the f22c gives and its proven to be faster at the wheels.
The dated exterior, dated interior, arguably slower, less reliable, that the ap1s are. eh. but 9k and the rawness!? eh.

 

9000 rpm is meh? lol wut