You're right. The most either side has is anecdotal evidence, and what each of us believes we see around us.

Re-wording my take on the perception:

"It would seem that fewer high-end vehicles, such as the Ferrari, are modified, whereas, a higher-percentage of low-end vehicles are. The high-end vehicle must need it less, the low-end vehicle must need it more. The high-end vehicle has less to gain, the low-end has more to gain."


[QUOTE]...his absolutist language did indeed make a statement about why we mod our cars.

 

My mother recently had her house remodeled. She spent way more than the cost of an S2K having walls knocked down to expand the kitchen and open up the floorplan of the house. She also had one of the bedrooms converted to a den. She'll never recoup the amount of money she spent, especially since it's now a 3 bedroom house instead of 4. But she likes it better now. Isn't that enough? Shouldn't that be enough for an S2K owner as well?

 

meat-this has evolved into the mod debate forum that you proposed. a wonderful place for individuals to come to close their minds to the ideas of others. It's amusing to a point to see some of the venom but, come on, bieg has a valid opinion and others have highly modified S2k's, the difference is a matter of degrees, bieg appears to express what's on his mind. the other day with his 's is for special' thread he was a hero, today he is villafied for his thoughts which somehow deeply anger some. to all- take comfort in who you are, or in what you drive, or whatever makes you feel what you will, but please, accept that others may not see eye to eye with you. it's getting a little too catty 'round here for me.

 

Bieg, bravo for posing a provocative thread, and eloquently setting out your position about modifying the S2000. SilverFog, bravo for speaking your mind and standing up for others who express their opinions in a rational manner, like Bieg. Vaper, Bravo, for straight talk and a reasonable tone.

To those who make personal attacks on Bieg or others who don't agree with you, you demonstrate that you may be smart enough to have chosen an S2000, but then ran out of string.

To the moderators, I really hope you are not serious about denying Bieg or SilverFog their posting privileges. That would reflect very poorly on this site where we all spend so much time. This may be someone's site, but without members it's nothing. If this is a site which will only tolerate one point of view, then it's less than we all hope for and less than we deserve.

We've seen many sites come and go. Superhonda, Honda-Acura.net, etc. This site has been the best of the lot. We're counting on C3 and the moderators acting reaonably and moderately so it stays that way.

So, Bieg, keep it coming. SilverFog and Vaper, (and many others) an honor to be posting with you all. To the haters, grow up. To the moderators, don't side with the haters, moderate with moderation.

2x6spds

 

Bieg,

May I make a suggestion? I would urge you to just ignore the flames. Answering them, then reminding them that they're out of line, only raises the temperature of the discussion. Grin and bear it. You had to know your post would arouse some passions, so don't revel in it.

 

Vaper

Did you miss my humor? I merely posed the question since we have so many of these topics going lately. I am of the Harry Cash (hecash) school of thought - it's yours, do what you want with it.

You also didn't address my Mugen question.

 

well..i'll jump in here....having owned a few classic cars in my time..[currently a grand prix bugatti in the garage] i can attest to the value of a unmodified original car....however in the course of extensive research on many of my cars [most recently the bug] it seems that when folks originally bought them it was to drive,race,and generally go as fast as they could.[i would have to mention that in the late '20s early 30's or so a grand prix bugatti or a alfa monza was pretty hot shit,both mechanically and aesthetically]...so mods abounded..and no one thought that their car would ever end up at christies....so they were raced into the ground and we collectors end up with the bits to massage back into an "original"car...the point here is that when today's "collector" cars were new, the prevalent thinking among the owners was "it's just a car"..i paid for it,it's mine and i'll do whatever i want to it..now,don't think this was lost on me when i got my s2k [in nov of '99 it was believably touted as "limited production"]..and it occurred to me that perhaps my great grandchildren might benefit from a low milage, original unmolested unit....but hell, it's only a car,[and my car at that] so i'll do with it as i see fit...and as for the "work of engineering art" business,i can assure you that when you have a bugatti in the driveway,the honda seems a lot more like just a car.[oh,btw i vintage race the bugatti so no "trailer queen"comments please...]

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vaper
[B]meat-this has evolved into the mod debate forum that you proposed.

 

I don't understand the big deal. There are TONS of reasons, from statistics to photos to stories about the great additions a mod makes to the car. And thus you have a long list of reasons to modify the car. What is wrong with one or several people just giving some reasons NOT to modify the car?

I know many of you have taken this as an opportunity to feel oppresed or to flame someone, but that was ALL he was doing, giving some logical reasons not to mod the car past a point that can't be restored. And he said it in direct manner, qualifying and disclaiming his statements in order for those quick on the gun to try to read his words at face value - which many people chose not to do.

To continue, I can give you many reasons why you should go get a college education. I can also give you a several reasons why not to. I'm sure one of these arguments, why you should get a college education, will have the majority of supporters. These people will believe that the reasons for one outweigh the reasons of the other.

That does NOT mean that it should be wrong to give the list of why not to get a college education. They may be valid reasons and for particular individuals and particular circumstances, those reasons may outweigh the reasons given by the majority.

From reading the posts on this board, I've yet to read anyone that says 'you don't have the right to do to your car what you wish'. Therefore, it seems that everyone agrees each owner should treat their car in the manner that makes them the happiest. So if one person wants to mod their car outrageously, and someone else prefers to keep it stock so that in 20-30 years they will have a 'stock original' car, which history tells us is more valuable and admired by the majority of the car collectors and exhibition shows, they should be able to give that opinion.

I've personally known many people that would agree that this is valuable and important. I can respect that because I have collected many things, and I always value the 'original, mint' condition of an object, and look upon it as special, even if I feel it has flaws. It is special because of how unique it is. Once an car gets a major mod, crashed, scratched, dulled, etc, the car that is closest to the original mint condition becomes extremely rare. And some can see great value in that.

I'm glad Bieg mentioned this because as a future owner, I've been very excited about performing some custom mods on my ordered S2K. But he's also pointed out something that, in my excitement, I haven't thought too much about. And it has been valuable to me because now I think I will have a little better perspective and use a little better judgment and ensure that the decisions I make now are the ones I will be happy with for the life of my ownership of the car.

RT





[Edited by Riotom on 06-03-2001 at 07:53 PM]

 

I would put it in the garage if I were you. The driveway does not seem like the place for a Bugatti.
Compared to a Bugatti not many cars seem like a work of art.

That being said the Honda S2000 IS a work of engineering art and that view can be supported by such independent judges as WARDS who named the F20C the best 4 cylinder engine 2 years running. Any car that breaks the types of performance barriers the S2000 does and sells for the reasonable price that it does is not only engineering art,....it is engineering MAGIC.